Comparing This Year's Team to 2012-13's Team

[Triggermv]

(sorry for the length)

I got to thinking about the make-up and playing style I’m expecting out of this year’s team, and correct me if I’m wrong, I really think we’ll see somewhat of a throwback year again to what we saw back in 2012-13’s team. Bear with me on this. If I think back to that fun 2012-13 year, what sticks out most to me was:

1. how fast temp we played (arguably the fastest tempo year since Hoiberg came)
2. lots of fast-break points
3. how perimeter oriented we were structured
4. amazingly talented shooting team
5. how many 3’s we shot and made that year (I remember us setting records and nearly be tops in the nation for this)
6. first year under Hoiberg we finally had a decent point guard
7. we were definitely more of a finesse team than a power team
8. arguably our worst defense under Hoiberg’s good teams (Babb was amazing)

Don’t get me wrong, while we had a young Georges, and a not quite yet peaked Ejim on that same team, there really wasn’t that much pound it into the post going on. In particular, I remember most of Ejim’s points came off put-backs and fast breaks that year.

This now brings me to what I expect this year, and personally, I’m expecting many of the same things, just probably a little better in most categories. In particular, I think we pick back up the tempo some this year (Prohm is really wanting this), we will definitely be more perimeter focused since that is where our talent is, our shooting talent should be back up near that 2012-13 team, our number of 3’s shot and made should go up, we’ve got an amazing point guard to dish out the ball, we’ll probably be more finesse than power overall, most our post points will likely come from put-backs and fast-breaks, and it is debatable how good our defense will be.

Even if we compare players, I see a lot of similarities. Starting with the point guard, Morris is somewhat similar to Lucious, only better. From a shooting perspective, the old team had Lucious, McGee and Babb, while this year’s team will have Morris, Long, and Thomas. Man, that is a neck-and-neck battle for supremacy. As for a go-to shot-creating scorer, I really see it as Clyburn verses Burton battle right now, where depending on Burton’s development, I could see him easily ending up either better or worse than Clyburn that year. It is all up to Burton, but I’d say Burton is more talented. In the post, all I’m really expecting down there from the whole Holden, Bowie, and Young combo is a bunch of rebounding, defense, and some blocked shots. I think that is very possible, and in the end, not super different from the 2012-13 squad, only that the 2012-13 squad was probably more talented and better overall down there. Lastly, one thing that was nice about that 2012-13 squad was having that lock-down defender guy with Chris Babb. I'm not sure this team has that guy, but that doesn't mean they can't be better overall as a conglomerate on defense.

In the end, I really do think this team is a little better overall than that 2012-13 team and will likely play more cohesively earlier on in the season. That 2012-13 team took a little while to gel with having to deal with nearly all-new players yet again. However, don’t forget, that 2012-13 team really peaked at exactly the right time and if they wouldn’t have got screwed over in their loss to Ohio State, I think they could have really made it a ways further in the tourney. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Am I crazy? Is there another ISU team that will look more similar to this year?

 

[Triggermv]

Bump, would like to see people's thoughts

 

[CloneIce]

I think that is a great comparison. We will be very perimeter oriented and fun to watch this year. I think we are even better in the guard court, because Morris is a much better PG than Luscious. The McGee- Babb combo vs. Long-Thomas is pretty close. Maybe a slight edge to McGee-Babb, but it might be too close to call - we'll see after this season. Lots of great Cyclones in both guard courts.

Burton will have to have a very strong year to top Clyburn. Will was pretty damn good. But I think Burton has the ability to be just as good - to me Burton is the biggest wildcard on our team. He has a very unique game. If he makes strides and has a huge year - look out. Of course Niang really did play the 4 that year also.

I give the edge to the '12-13 team down in the low post. Niang was playing very well at the end of the year, Ejim was good. Booker was good for a three now and then and could play the enforcer role a little.

One thing to note. That '12-13 team was I think quite a bit better than the 10-seed they ended up (and we should've beat OSU, I still call BS on that charge on Clyburn). We had some conference losses that should've been wins, particularly against KU at home when the refs were so bad they were suspended after the game. We were playing like a Top 25 team at then end of the season, much like the '11-12 team that was an 8 seed and lost to Kentucky.

 

[Cynonymous]

While I see the perimeter thing, I think this team will get to the line quite a bit more and attack from the perimeter. Whether it's our guards or our forwards, how many points inside the 3pt line will determine how strong the team can be throughout the season. I think the 4 experienced starters can all attack off the dribble if given space. A couple can create their own space and shot as well.

 

[Triggermv]

While I see the perimeter thing, I think this team will get to the line quite a bit more and attack from the perimeter. Whether it's our guards or our forwards, how many points inside the 3pt line will determine how strong the team can be throughout the season. I think the 4 experienced starters can all attack off the dribble if given space. A couple can create their own space and shot as well.

I agree that will be an edge for this year's teams vs that 2012-13 squad. Nearly all three of the combo Long-Thomas-Morris are a little bit more capable of driving and creating their own shot than their Babb-McGee-Lucious counterparts. At a minimum, we'll be a bit more versatile on the perimeter verses someone like McGee who mostly only jacked up threes.

 

[mb7299]

Interesting comparison here is the stats from that year: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa-state/2013.html

That was an 8 man roster with 7-8 being Gibson and Booker around the 12 min ppg range. So the question is do we have better 7-8 men on this years team? And can one of the posts be a big threat for us down low so it allows open shots outside? Lets be honest as well Hoiberg led teams were often not all in effort wise the first two years especially on defense (its showing its head in Chicago as well for some reason). So maybe this team isnt as talented but I do believe it will be better record wise than 23-12. If Babb really gets it toward the end of the season were going to be scary good.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Our defense should be better all around. Outside of Babb, that '12-'13 team was a whole lot of ole!

Morris is a noticeable improvement over Lucious, but Ejim does not have an equal on this year's team. If someone emerges as a tenacious rebounder for us this year, our ceiling could be higher.

I'm curious to see who will be our go-to guy when our offense goes stagnant in games this year. We were incredibly spoiled by Georges.

 

[Triggermv]

I think that is a great comparison. We will be very perimeter oriented and fun to watch this year. I think we are even better in the guard court, because Morris is a much better PG than Luscious. The McGee- Babb combo vs. Long-Thomas is pretty close. Maybe a slight edge to McGee-Babb, but it might be too close to call - we'll see after this season. Lots of great Cyclones in both guard courts.

Burton will have to have a very strong year to top Clyburn. Will was pretty damn good. But I think Burton has the ability to be just as good - to me Burton is the biggest wildcard on our team. He has a very unique game. If he makes strides and has a huge year - look out. Of course Niang really did play the 4 that year also.

I give the edge to the '12-13 team down in the low post. Niang was playing very well at the end of the year, Ejim was good. Booker was good for a three now and then and could play the enforcer role a little.

One thing to note. That '12-13 team was I think quite a bit better than the 10-seed they ended up (and we should've beat OSU, I still call BS on that charge on Clyburn). We had some conference losses that should've been wins, particularly against KU at home when the refs were so bad they were suspended after the game. We were playing like a Top 25 team at then end of the season, much like the '11-12 team that was an 8 seed and lost to Kentucky.

I totally agree on both the 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams being MUCH better than their seeds by the time the tournament rolled around both really were playing at Top 25 team levels by then. The hard part about going the HEAVY transfer route in all those early years is that pretty much all of those teams really struggled to gel earlier on in the season, beings how we almost had a brand spanking new team every year. Therefore, both those teams in question spent the entire year making up in the rankings category for some earlier losses that hurt pretty bad. Then, to add to that in the 2012-13 year, you are right on the fact that year was the year of all the horrible hose jobs by the refs, losing us an additional couple games. Nevertheless, both teams trended higher and higher as the year went on and ended up being one of the worst draws in their tourney for their particular seeds. I'm still unsure whether this year's team is truly better than that 2012-13 team by the end of the season, but I am pretty sure that they will be much more consistent with their play throughout the year, meaning they'll either stay top 25 or at least be near it all year long.

 

[Cyclonepride]

(sorry for the length)

I got to thinking about the make-up and playing style I’m expecting out of this year’s team, and correct me if I’m wrong, I really think we’ll see somewhat of a throwback year again to what we saw back in 2012-13’s team. Bear with me on this. If I think back to that fun 2012-13 year, what sticks out most to me was:

1. how fast temp we played (arguably the fastest tempo year since Hoiberg came)
2. lots of fast-break points
3. how perimeter oriented we were structured
4. amazingly talented shooting team
5. how many 3’s we shot and made that year (I remember us setting records and nearly be tops in the nation for this)
6. first year under Hoiberg we finally had a decent point guard
7. we were definitely more of a finesse team than a power team
8. arguably our worst defense under Hoiberg’s good teams (Babb was amazing)

Don’t get me wrong, while we had a young Georges, and a not quite yet peaked Ejim on that same team, there really wasn’t that much pound it into the post going on. In particular, I remember most of Ejim’s points came off put-backs and fast breaks that year.

This now brings me to what I expect this year, and personally, I’m expecting many of the same things, just probably a little better in most categories. In particular, I think we pick back up the tempo some this year (Prohm is really wanting this), we will definitely be more perimeter focused since that is where our talent is, our shooting talent should be back up near that 2012-13 team, our number of 3’s shot and made should go up, we’ve got an amazing point guard to dish out the ball, we’ll probably be more finesse than power overall, most our post points will likely come from put-backs and fast-breaks, and it is debatable how good our defense will be.

Even if we compare players, I see a lot of similarities. Starting with the point guard, Morris is somewhat similar to Lucious, only better. From a shooting perspective, the old team had Lucious, McGee and Babb, while this year’s team will have Morris, Long, and Thomas. Man, that is a neck-and-neck battle for supremacy. As for a go-to shot-creating scorer, I really see it as Clyburn verses Burton battle right now, where depending on Burton’s development, I could see him easily ending up either better or worse than Clyburn that year. It is all up to Burton, but I’d say Burton is more talented. In the post, all I’m really expecting down there from the whole Holden, Bowie, and Young combo is a bunch of rebounding, defense, and some blocked shots. I think that is very possible, and in the end, not super different from the 2012-13 squad, only that the 2012-13 squad was probably more talented and better overall down there. Lastly, one thing that was nice about that 2012-13 squad was having that lock-down defender guy with Chris Babb. I'm not sure this team has that guy, but that doesn't mean they can't be better overall as a conglomerate on defense.

In the end, I really do think this team is a little better overall than that 2012-13 team and will likely play more cohesively earlier on in the season. That 2012-13 team took a little while to gel with having to deal with nearly all-new players yet again. However, don’t forget, that 2012-13 team really peaked at exactly the right time and if they wouldn’t have got screwed over in their loss to Ohio State, I think they could have really made it a ways further in the tourney. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Am I crazy? Is there another ISU team that will look more similar to this year?

I disagree with the comparison on defense (and Babb was amazing). I think Matt, Naz and Monte are all decent defenders (Matt is excellent), and we have back up if they get into foul trouble. Plus, our relatively decent size allows for switching out top. Lack of switching killed us in the Hoiberg years.

 

[Triggermv]

I disagree with the comparison on defense (and Babb was amazing). I think Matt, Naz and Monte are all decent defenders (Matt is excellent), and we have back up if they get into foul trouble. Plus, our relatively decent size allows for switching out top. Lack of switching killed us in the Hoiberg years.

I'm not sure you read my post close enough on what I said about defense. What I said was that its debatable on how good we'll actually be on defense at first, then I later said that while we likely don't have an exact Babb equivalent (he was Big 12 defensive poy in my mind), we have a chance of being better as a conglomerate. In the end, I think we'll likely be better than that year's team on defense, but I can't say for certain. In the end, we've had a little sway in defense from year to year, but I can't say I can look at any of our teams since Hoiberg first came and say any team was drastically better than the others. Therefore, until that happens, I'm not going to go too far out on a limb and say with confidence anything about how we'll end up defensively. I've been burned too many times saying that in the past already. But yes, on paper, we should be a little better on defense.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I'm not sure you read my post close enough on what I said about defense. What I said was that its debatable on how good we'll actually be on defense at first, then I later said that while we likely don't have an exact Babb equivalent (he was Big 12 defensive poy in my mind), we have a chance of being better as a conglomerate. In the end, I think we'll likely be better than that year's team on defense, but I can't say for certain. In the end, we've had a little sway in defense from year to year, but I can't say I can look at any of our teams since Hoiberg first came and say any team was drastically better than the others. Therefore, until that happens, I'm not going to go too far out on a limb and say with confidence anything about how we'll end up defensively. I've been burned too many times saying that in the past already. But yes, on paper, we should be a little better on defense.

You, sir, are correct.