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Discussion in 'Football' started by ChrisMWilliams, Nov 21, 2012.
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Great column but I'm surprised you don't consider Klein and Knott superstars. They are two of the top ten players we've had this decade.
Is Iowa State really below 90 in total defense?
I agree they are big-time players, but AJ and Jake definitely don't seek the spot-light and are more comfortable being just one of many. Point being it is hard to single out one person for the success this season.
I don't disagree with the fundamental principle of the article, but I think this is just wrong:
Jake Knott and AJ Klein are every bit the leader of those previous Cyclones, if not more. The ability of the team to overcome losing one of those leaders is key, but I think it discounts the contribution and leadership of those two stalwarts to say they don't compare to previous Cyclone leaders.
Yes, 93rd. But that is based on yardage, not points of course.
Not saying that at all. Just that they have a bunch of help.
Total Defense - NCAA.com
But if you look at the Opponent's Offensive TDs column you'll see Iowa State's number is far lower than the surrounding teams
We are 93rd for total defense (yds allowed) but are 30th for scoring defense. Also, some more interesting stats, we are 18th for fewest penalty yds per game. We are 30th for redzone defense. We are 47th for turnover margin.
Side topic, but the fact that "total defense" is figured by yards per game is completely asinine.
Total offense is measured in YPG as well, makes no sense. Case in point, Troy has the #12 "total offense", but scored less than 4 TDs per game
I attended ISU during the glory days of Earle Bruce. The program that Rhoads is building is similar to Bruce. A multitude of very, very good players that would have equated ultimate "Star" status during leaner times. Tom Boskey, Chris Boskey, Dexter Green, Mike Stensrud, Tom Randall, Luther Blue, Wayne Stanley, Buddy Hardeman, **** Cuvelier, etc., etc. We had studs throughout the lineup during those glory years of the late '70's.
And like Earle Bruce, Rhoads has now redshirted the entire freshman class. Earle Bruce had redshirted his entire freshman class when Woody Hayes punched a Clemson player and changed the future of ISU football. The thing is now, that Rhoads will likely stay and continue to build this program.
Knott and Klein are 2 of the best linebackers ever at ISU. No doubt about it. In the past they would be the only decent players that could play for other Big XII teams. So they would get ALL the recognition. That is beginning to no longer be the case. We are beginning to close the gap a bit on the level of talent.
Agree. They are every bit as good as Tim Dobbins.
Yeah, agree. This was one of the more enjoyable seasons I can remember. Not exactly sure why, maybe because I looked forward to every game, thinking our guys had a chance. Even after the losses I never had the feeling of despair that I had in prior years.
I think I just like the way ISU plays now and I think as long as PR is here our guys will have a shot. Defense is just so physical compared to what we have seen before. Offense definelty frustrating at times but still a fun year from my persepctive.
Would be nice to get this last win, go to a good bowl, get everyone healthy for one last game.
I actually don't really think Dobbin's belonged on that list, at least I don't recall him being a clear leader of the team. He was good, no doubt, but as a 2-year player I never say him as the face of the team.
Seems like it is nearly impossible to stop teams from picking up lots of yardage in the Big 12 (most games each team has 500+ total yards). Its more a matter of stopping them from getting in the endzone once they get inside the red zone and have less space to work with, which ISU seems really good at (and forcing turnovers of course).
Clearly you are not saying AK and JK do not have the talent or leadership of the aformentioned past players, but I am still unsure what you are suggesting. I am guessing you are more stating something about the team and not about AJJK. Perhaps because this team has better surrounding talent (subjective) than the teams those other players were on, JK and AK are not leaned on as much? If so, I disagree. Even teams with many good players lean of leaders like AK and JK.
Leadership isn't what I was getting at. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. My point was it is hard to single out any one individual on this team for the success, each game has had a separate "star." Yes, AJ and Jake are fantastic players and better leaders, but they haven't had to do it all on their own. Appreciate everyone reading.
Besides Seneca, I think it is just as easy (if not easier) to single out AJJK for the team's success as the others you listed. If there is any difference, it is due to them playing defense.
I agree with this. I think some of this has to do with hindsight vs present team. A lot of the players on the periphery kinda fall away over time while the stars stay stuck in your head. For example, I would argue that on the 2005 team that Nick Leaders and Steve Paris were just as important, if not more, than Dobbins was.