Battle of the Ex's...Huskers vs Bluejays

Discussion in 'General College Sports' started by nfrine, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. FinalFourCy

    FinalFourCy Well-Known Member

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    It wasn’t going to workout? That’s how Prohm rebounded a year ago. And we start three transfers this year, so does Prohm know it won’t work?

    I’m surprised you’d regurgitate that lazy false narrative.

    Fred and Matt had built a reputation for being good for transfer recruits, and likely would have benefited from the increase in the number of transfers outpacing any increase in P5’s going after them (they always have). An like Prohm is now, they would have been selling the best ISU MBB brand ever.

    Fred quit doing his job long before June 2015, and that’s why his recruiting dropped off.
     
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  2. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    Who in the holy **** cares about what Fred would or would not have done as coach, he isn't our coach anymore. Which reminds me, I really need to change my avatar.
     
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  3. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    It exists. I quote you...

    "There is no doubt in my mind Hoiberg would have won a Big 12 championship and had them in the Final Four once by now had he stayed. I felt he was just breaking the surface on how great the sustained success of the program would have been in Year 5."

    https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/threads/insider-what-im-hearing-on-the-scrimmage-vs-wisconsin.252088/page-13#post-6869779

    That crowd definitely exists, sometimes explicitly, and I think many of the others are comparing Prohm to an idealized version of both the actual Hoiberg era and an forthcoming Land of Milk and Honey where he sustained success on par with something like the Fizer-Tinsley year. Well, it never happened, and now he is long gone.
     
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  4. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    I understand your point -- you want to imagine a Hoiberg tenure going forward where he (1.) committed to the college game and Iowa State, which meant recruiting guys in the Niang-Morris-Thomas range that he could land if he put in the work and (2.) quit chasing the moonshine of the Diallo and Vaughn types that Iowa State did not have the re$ource$ to land. Well, none of that happened. We got what we got.

    Do you have any evidence the rate of transfer has increased? Even if it has, the competition for the best-of-the-best transfers is much steeper now than it was during the Hoiberg years. His iffy transfer recruiting at Nebraska is proof of that.

    The impressive thing about the Hoiberg and Prohm tenures to me is not the differences in results and styles, frankly, but the similarities. The results have been similar, the computer rankings have been similar, we are still an "offense first" program that struggles to rebound and stop the three and... as you said... we still have a roster heavily built around transfers, but at least Prohm is putting in the work to land guys like Wigginton, Horton-Tucker, and Foster and finding gems like Haliburton to build around.

    Close your eyes and it is hard to tell the difference.
     
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  5. jereseib

    jereseib Well-Known Member

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    I dont talk about Prohm anymore. The other poster you are quoting said "3 Final Fours". Please explain where i said we would have 3 Final Fours. You can clearly see I said "once" and 1 Big 12 championship.

    So let me get this straight, the team was already getting #3 seeds in Year 4 and 5, and everyone knows the Kane-Ejim-Niang team had definite Final Four potential had Niang not gotten hurt, but you dont think 5 years more of Hoiberg would have gotten any closer to a Big 12 championship or a Final Four?

    You do realize a 3 seed means they were a Top 9-12 team in the entire tournament? Yeah, teams around that range are never good enough to make the Final Four!!!

    I agree with alot of your posts, but trying to drag me into this one is stupidity on your part.
     
  6. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    Good for you for cooling it on Prohm. I appreciate that from you.

    The point remains, however --

    Some of the Prohm bashing has at least an element of comparing it to an idealized level of either past Hoiberg success (e.g., "without the bad luck of the Babb/Niang injuries, we are going to the Final Four!") or "future" Hoiberg success (your post).

    Was I slightly hyperbolic to the actual text of your post? Yeah, you said one Final Four and one Big 12 regular season championship. I think the meat of the point remains -- even one of those would be absolutely fantastic accomplishments.

    Fred never did either, and neither has Prohm.

    It is too late to take back your post -- you are comparing Prohm and judging him against things that Fred never did in Ames. He might have, but he never did.
     
  7. jereseib

    jereseib Well-Known Member

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    You guys act like the program would be in shambles right now in Hoibergs 10th year. I just dont think its too much to expect the goals I mentioned with the way the program was trending back then. Some of you guys underestimate how big of a name he was back then in college basketball.
     
  8. jereseib

    jereseib Well-Known Member

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    Thats all I have to say about it, Im not here to argue anymore and Im over the Prohm bashing, just stop pulling me into arguments I dont want to be in anymore.

    My goal this basketball season is to just enjoy the season and the growth. I dont think we are very good but we have alot of guys that I really enjoy watching and see like great reps for the program and the university. I cant say the same about last years team which seemed like a collection of prima donna's which made the season even that much more frustrating.
     
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  9. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    Shambles? I doubt that, assuming, again, that Fred really committed to the college game, Iowa State, and putting in the hard work to land good 4* players. If I had to guess, though, I would say he would be hovering about where he was.

    Taking a present trend and projecting it out forever, linearly, is a very bad type of reasoning, however. Fred had the program in around the 10th to 15th range in college basketball, yes, but going from a bottom-feeder to pretty competitive is easier than going to pretty good to routinely pulling #1 seeds, conference championships, and Final Fours. The level of competition at the top is homicidal. Saying he was going to cruise up to the level of the blue bloods on a linear progression is pretty tenuous.

    Part of me thinks Fred left because he felt he had taken the program about as far as he could. Above that level, things become so competitive (and things become so corrupt and dirty, frankly), that I am not sure Fred wanted to be a part of it.

    I think you might overrate the heroic status of our former ball boy throughout college basketball, too. Nebraska is a pretty cruddy job. You figure he could have landed something a little better if regard for him was really that lofty. To us, he was a legend, but to the rest of the world, he had a nice run at Iowa State built around a few gimmicks like transfer recruiting and a JATO-boosted offense, but he was never in the class of some other guys challenging the blue bloods like Wright, Bennett, and Beard.
     
  10. jereseib

    jereseib Well-Known Member

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    Wright and Bennett have been around for years, Beard isnt a blue blood coach, he just turned a crappy program into a contender. Anyways, I appreciate your responses but Im not here to argue anymore, please dont drag me into future posts that I made 2 months ago.
     
  11. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    Sorry -- you just provided a great example. :)

    Bennett is a great comparison for Hoiberg, though. Bennett took the UVA job in 2009 and Hoiberg came to Ames in 2010, if you want to make comparisons.

    Beard is a good coach, but we see he is struggling a little without Culver around, which was a lucky recruiting situation that only happens so often.
     
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  12. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    Didn't expect to get UNO before UNL when I hit CTRL+F to find them...

    upload_2019-12-8_11-5-0.png
     
  13. AuH2O

    AuH2O Well-Known Member

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    Not just Culver but look at his roster from last year. Unbelievable number of 5th year grown ass men. I think Beard is damn good and they still have some solid players but ranking them that high was quite a leap of faith.
     
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  14. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested to see if Bennett goes to Wisconsin when that time comes. I don't think Gard's going to get it done long-term.
     
  15. nfrine

    nfrine Well-Known Member

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    A couple of those became NBA players because of CSP.
     
  16. CycloneVet

    CycloneVet Well-Known Member

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    I ******* hate Chewy. The people that say Hilton Magic is dead now don’t remember the Dark Ages of McD. I don’t hate Wayne. Nit deep run followed by round of 32? His teams were light years ahead of Chewys at ISU .
     
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  17. Cyched

    Cyched Minister of Culture
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    This is becoming a theme.

    Greg never pulled off an upset at Hilton. Ever. Hell, Prohm's worst team a couple years ago still pulled off a handful of upsets at home.
     
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  18. Lineup

    Lineup Active Member

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    **** fred
     
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  19. CycloneVet

    CycloneVet Well-Known Member

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    Plus I don’t get the feeling Steve is on the first ship out of town
     
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  20. HFCS

    HFCS Well-Known Member

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    Not making the dance with Brackins, Garrett and Gilstrap was absolutely ridiculous.
     
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