***#6 Iowa State at Collegiate Duals (Dec. 19-20)***

[HGoat1]

That's getting called a pin at the collegiate level a majority of the time. Especially when there was already been a 4 count and all they're looking for is a pin, a lot of times all the ref is looking for is that second shoulder to touch and as soon as it does they call it.

 

[Proton]

 

[CyGold]

Well, the rule book says scapulae, which are shoulder blades:

Art. 1. Fall. A fall occurs when any part of both shoulders or part of both
scapulae of either wrestler is held in contact with the mat for one second. The
one-second count (one-thousand-one) shall be a silent count by the referee
and shall start only after the referee is in position to observe that a fall is
imminent.

scapulae goes down the back quite a ways... just saying

I'm sure we've all seen this position called a pin before and we will in the future. Great job Marcus!

 

[theshadow]

View attachment 107130
scapulae goes down the back quite a ways... just saying

I'm sure we've all seen this position called a pin before and we will in the future. Great job Marcus!

Yes, thank you. I know where the scapulae are.

I wanted that to be a fall as much as anyone. I just don't think it was.

 

[crablegs]

I'd just like to point out how impressed I was with Marcus holding on to win that match. Being up 6-3 against Brooks with 1 period to go is still extremely dangerous. Smartest move Marcus made was going for the reversal instead of going to his feet when Brooks was trying to cut him.

Agreed. I truly believe Brooks is the best P4P wrestler in the NCAA. You tell me he needs 3 TDs in 2 minutes I think he’s getting it the vast majority of the time.

 

[cywr89]

View attachment 107130
scapulae goes down the back quite a ways... just saying

I'm sure we've all seen this position called a pin before and we will in the future. Great job Marcus!

In the rule book they use ovals on the skin and lets just say they are fairly liberal with the area. As most have eluded to Brooks received the benefit of doubt from the ref.

 

[crablegs]

In the rule book they use ovals on the skin and lets just say they are fairly liberal with the area. As most have eluded to Brooks received the benefit of doubt from the ref.

 

[CyGold]

On the flip side there are some benefits for the ref NOT calling the fall...

1. It keeps people from saying he got "caught" and thinking that's the only reason he won
2. Marcus scored additional points in the 3rd and I'm sure he gained additional information on Brooks for the next time they wrestle (hopefully in the NCAA finals
3. It didn't effect the outcome of the dual

btw - I can understand why some feel that it was not a pin. IMO it could have been called either way. I thought it was a pin but I'm not upset with the call or anyone who feels differently. I posted the pic because I thought it might be informational for the newby's on this board, not for the posters that already now the rules or to be a smart a**. Plus I didn't know Proton was going to post the same pic. Proton must be a genius because great minds think alike. lol

 

[cywr89]

View attachment 107160

Little different than I saw a few years back (might have been a HS rule book) but in general the same area. Thanks for posting.

 

[crablegs]

Little different than I saw a few years back (might have been a HS rule book) but in general the same area. Thanks for posting.

This is the 22-23 ncaa book. HS may be different.

 

[4everClone]

So…I’ve watched the Coleman roll through on Brooks about 15 times from multiple angles. I hear so many people saying he pinned Brooks, but I don’t see it. It was a GREAT move, and one I think was called accurately. Anybody but Brooks is getting stuck, which is a testament to just how good Brooks is.

Disagree. Brook’s middle of his back is flat to the mat for ~2 seconds. He is just rolling on it and not bridging on his head during that time. 99% + of wrestlers not 2 time NC champs would have been called. Look at the Keck match where he got the pin.

 

[4everClone]

Brooks curled up enough so his shoulder blades weren't ever both on the mat for a full 1-count. Close, but I'm not going full conspiracy theory.

I get the screenshot, but that's 1/30 of a second.

Very rare to see both shoulders flat. More pins called when a shoulder is up than not.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Man Starocci has become so unlikeable. Post match interview “we peak in the postseason. Iowa state peaked today. It’ll be fun seeing us improve and them decline”. @Tigerguy_ have Dresser put that in the locker room

Lol, must've got under their skin. We've been irrelevant for years, not sure what would bring on that comment. Either way, good to see us competing at the highest levels.

 

[TheJackWePack5]

Lol, must've got under their skin. We've been irrelevant for years, not sure what would bring on that comment. Either way, good to see us competing at the highest levels.

Even Yianni had some choice words for our guys/coaches after he beat Paniro.

 

[SolarGarlic]

A great tournament, to be sure, I can't remember the last time that I was this excited about our team. Probably when the Paulsons and Backus were wrestling, so it has been a while.

I got to thinking about how our team is very much in the conversation for a top dual team - we so closely lost to both #1 and #2. But what did we do this week in terms of our standing for the tournament in March? Assuming that we wrestle to our rankings, what will the new rankings be, and what impact does it have?

125 - no real change to rankings or expectations
133 - Ramazan was at #21 (Intermat). I think that he upped his expectation to blood round.
141 - no change
149 - PJ was at #5 and I don't think that this weekend changes that, although he could move up a slot.
157 - NR, but maybe he could actually be a dark horse and sneak into qualify, then a win or two would be a nice bonus.
165 - No change, but I think that he is getting more comfortable at the weight. No reason that his rankings change.
174 - Was at #21. He may have increased his stock. But Rd16 is probably peak at this point.
185 - Munoz was head-hunting this weekend. Tough loss for Marcus, but one that he can overcome. I thought that his #4 ranking was in jeopardy, and maybe still is, but taking down #1 may keep him about #5.
197 - Yonger will definitely drop from his #2 ranking, I think that he will end up about 4.
285 - No change to his ranking.

To sum up, I don't think that our overall tournament expectation changed much from this week, if we were to wrestle to the rankings (assuming that these would be the tournament finish). So we would still finish about #5 based on the points generated from the results. That being said, however, I think that this week also showed that there is some great possibility that we can perform beyond. We can still have title contenders at 149, 165, 185 and 197. AA potential at 125, 133, 141, and 285. And possibly a couple of wins at 157 and 174. While this is pie-in-the-sky type of stuff, it is always fun to dream, and those finishes definitely put the team in medal position.

This weekend means I get to be excited to watch every weight in the national tournament instead of 1 or 2. I'll always be basketball first, but a good wrestling team adds so much to the winter sports season. It's good to be back.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Even Yianni had some choice words for our guys/coaches after he beat Paniro.

I guess you can't take the Hawkeye out of a few on our bench if I were to guess why that was the case.

 

[4everClone]

Disagree. Brook’s middle of his back is flat to the mat for ~2 seconds. He is just rolling on it and not bridging on his head during that time. 99% + of wrestlers not 2 time NC champs would have been called. Look at the Keck match where he got the pin.

Good example of pin called without shoulders flat.

 

[PantherCyclone]

Good example of pin called without shoulders flat.

I think both scapulas touch at the 9 second mark pretty clearly. It definitely wasn’t for a full one count, though.

 

[cloneconeramone]

It wasn't called a pin but I have sure seen it called multiple times when less flat. It would not have changed the team result, so not that important. What is important is the fact that ISU wrestling in fun again and our staff and wrestlers are butt kickers. I loved the event but wish it would have been a little warmer and less rainy. Johnson was so close with Yani! Great event. Where will it be held next year?

 

[TheJackWePack5]

It will be interesting to me to see who heads to the Southern Scuffle.