Williams & Blum Pod: Where does Iowa State land in the new Big 12 hierarchy?

kirk89gt

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Feb 15, 2014
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I think the point in all of this is that there is going to be a vacuum with the departure of OU with no real bully that is a dominant program in the conference. I am not going to throw UT in this mix as they consistently win the award for doing less with more and haven’t really been a factor in football for over a decade - although their conference series records since joining the Big 12 are decidedly in their favor - found it surprising that they hold the overall record over OU prior to joining the conference (their historical records against their future SEC foes are respectable as well - which further illustrates the head scratcher that is UT football). I guess top talent and a bottomless pit of resources can only get you so far……..

With no clear cut dominant program there is an opportunity for ISU to fill part of that void, raise the ceiling, and elevate the program.

I also see a conference where the potential for increased parity exists which would make for some exciting conference races, especially if we were in the mix from time to time.

Basketball on the other hand…….woof. If we can hold a middle of the pack standing, that should get us into the tournament most years with a solid seed. Then it is about matchups and seeing if you can get hot, go on a run, catch a break, and see what happens.
 

CoKane

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Oct 26, 2013
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I don't get the point, if you don't make the playoff it doesn't matter? It most certainly matters if we an 3 games or 7. 3 wins for several years and everyone gets canned. 7 wins and we all feel like we are in the brink of the playoffs.
I've run the numbers on this in the past. Every single team who's finished in the top 16 has won 9 or more games outside of 2 teams. West Virginia in 2018, who had a game canceled due to weather, and Auburn in 2016 who had a really rough schedule. A number of 9-3 teams missed the cut. 2-3 wins in college football context is a ton of wins. And that's with an uncertain schedule and a need to see what other teams are doing too.

I feel like saying using a 7-5 and Liberty Bowl appearance as a talking point for a big season the next year is similar to someone hyping up their NIT bid. Sure, it's better than nothing. But it's value really won't be much of anything in the long term when so many other programs got something significantly better.
 

NATEizKING

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Feb 18, 2011
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I've run the numbers on this in the past. Every single team who's finished in the top 16 has won 9 or more games outside of 2 teams. West Virginia in 2018, who had a game canceled due to weather, and Auburn in 2016 who had a really rough schedule. A number of 9-3 teams missed the cut. 2-3 wins in college football context is a ton of wins. And that's with an uncertain schedule and a need to see what other teams are doing too.

I feel like saying using a 7-5 and Liberty Bowl appearance as a talking point for a big season the next year is similar to someone hyping up their NIT bid. Sure, it's better than nothing. But it's value really won't be much of anything in the long term when so many other programs got something significantly better.
NIT is a national championship
 

Soocity

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May 8, 2023
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It feels like tomorrow will look like yesterday. The best teams will be the best coached with the best stuff. KU will always be KU in basketball. Us, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, TCU, and BYU in football. Baylor too maybe.
 

aeroclone

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Oct 30, 2006
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Historically BYU and WVU have more success, but that’s pretty easy. Trajectory wise, I’d put BYU above ISU given our last 2 years, but fairly close when expanding to a 5 year view.
Something to consider when looking at future pecking order in the new Big 12 though, is the history of those programs were built in different places. Since moving to the B12, I think WVU has taken a clear step back from where they were in the Big East. The step up in competition and becoming a geographic outlier seems to take a toll. This could certainly be the case for a BYU, UCF, and Cincy as well.

And in my mind, whenever you look at ISUs history I always consider that for a large chunk of it we just didn't seem to give a **** about sports. It isn't like our history is entirely because it is hard to win here. For many, many years we just flat out didn't even try.
 

Soocity

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Something to consider when looking at future pecking order in the new Big 12 though, is the history of those programs were built in different places. Since moving to the B12, I think WVU has taken a clear step back from where they were in the Big East. The step up in competition and becoming a geographic outlier seems to take a toll. This could certainly be the case for a BYU, UCF, and Cincy as well.

And in my mind, whenever you look at ISUs history I always consider that for a large chunk of it we just didn't seem to give a **** about sports. It isn't like our history is entirely because it is hard to win here. For many, many years we just flat out didn't even try.
West Virginia step way up into the Big 12. They had a great Big East team that got bloodied in the first Big 12 season games. Can't remember who beat them but it was blowouts. That was there Gino Smith team. I agree. They have been average to bad in the Big Twelve.
 

cyfan92

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Sep 20, 2011
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1/2 of my score is football, 1/4 is men's basketball and 1/4 is fanbase/brand/NIL potential

Tier 1:
TCU

Tier 2:
Baylor
OSU
BYU
Tech

Tier 3:
KSU
ISU
Cincy
WVU
KU
Houston
UCF
 

Jer

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Feb 28, 2006
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1/2 of my score is football, 1/4 is men's basketball and 1/4 is fanbase/brand/NIL potential

Tier 1:
TCU

Tier 2:
Baylor
OSU
BYU
Tech

Tier 3:
KSU
ISU
Cincy
WVU
KU
Houston
UCF
With that formula, Houston would be at the top of Tier 3.
 

brentblum

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Good discussion here! Yes, listening back I misrepresented CW's initial point slightly which threw off the disucssion a bit. I do think Iowa State is as well positioned in Football and Basketball for whatever's next as anytime I've been around.
 

cyfan92

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With that formula, Houston would be at the top of Tier 3.
Apologies, any name in Tier 2-3 is on a level field with others in the same tier. K-State has a chance to be move up with Klieman and Tang but I need to see it over multiple years.

Outside of BYU and Houston MBB, I think the news school's primary sports will struggle initially.. It took TCU a long time to adjust to this conference. WVU has FAR better history prior to the last last decade in the Big 12. BYU has players age, a national fanbase and is the dominant school in a wealthy MSA. Houston MBB will be strong as long as Sampson in the head coach and he's set to turn 68 this fall, so how sustainable is that?
 
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