Redskins Yes or no

[ruxCYtable]

It's much more about angry white people than native Americans. The Washington post survey found 9 of 10 NA didn't have a problem with the name whatsoever.

A friend just sent me this quote:

"It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big-time team. It's only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians." -- Walter Wetzel

 

[cyclones500]

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?

Extremely condensed summary:

The NCAA declared the Fighting Illini nickname to be acceptable because it reputedly derives from the name of the state, rather than a specific tribe. … (although the Chief Illiniwek mascot was retired in 2007).
(Related, per Wiki): "Illinois" is the modern spelling for the early French Catholic missionaries and explorers' name for the Illinois Native Americans, a name that was spelled in various ways in early records.

Fighting Sioux: Basics of retirement of the nickname The NCAA’s 2005 directive to remove” hostile and abusive" representations of Native Americans could be suspended in UND’s case if Standing Rock and Spirit Lake tribes gave namesake approval, but only Spirit Lake voted to keep the name. Additional details of the UND mascot topic from Wikipedia

 

[2forISU]

I think there’s a few reasons. It’s probably not great for a non-Native American team to use Native American imagery. Plus it could kind of be seen as a slap in the face towards the people, especially Native American activists, who have been pushing for the name change.

But even if you think it’s fine, it’s at least possible (if not probable) that at some point in the future teams will be pushed to drop all Native American mascots and imagery. Why take the time, money, and cause division in your fan base to do two rebrandings when you can just do one.

I just did a quick google search on the logo and found this story...
https://www.wusa9.com/article/sport...eator/65-bf85b9b8-fa48-48dc-a3d2-3f03326cc338

Your 2nd point is valid. I find myself questioning everything these days and have a hard time coming to a conclusion on what is right/wrong anymore.

 

[CascadeClone]

Extremely condensed summary:

The NCAA declared the Fighting Illini nickname to be acceptable because it reputedly derives from the name of the state, rather than a specific tribe. … (although the Chief Illiniwek mascot was retired in 2007).
(Related, per Wiki): "Illinois" is the modern spelling for the early French Catholic missionaries and explorers' name for the Illinois Native Americans, a name that was spelled in various ways in early records.

So Illini was ok because it comes from the state name. Which came from... the tribe name. LOFL.

Very NCAA. Punish the small school, big one gets a reprimand.

I'd have to read back up on it, but I think UND was negotiating with Standing Rock, but it came down to money - SR wanted a piece of the action in order to approve. Which is their right to do. If I have that all wrong, mea culpa in advance, it's been a long time since I was paying attention.

 

[qwerty]

Looks like Redwolves is the current front runner.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...hingtons-new-team-name/ar-BB16Hbbp?ocid=ientp

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Looks like Redwolves is the current front runner.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...hingtons-new-team-name/ar-BB16Hbbp?ocid=ientp

I like redfish better. We need more aquatic mascots!

 

[Sigmapolis]

"Redtails" as a classy reference to the Tuskegee Airmen would be the best choice.

 

[Mr Janny]

"Redtails" as a classy reference to the Tuskegee Airmen would be the best choice.

Agreed. From a PR standpoint, it would be a home run. It also sounds cool.

 

[Dandy]

"Redtails" as a classy reference to the Tuskegee Airmen would be the best choice.

This is my number one choice. It just works so well with name and color scheme Washington wants to keep while also being a little woke.

But...

I was talking with someone about this idea and they said someone out there will try to cancel this too. I haven't fact checked this but they claim the Redtails, while having the ability to be the first black airmen, were still segregated from the white airmen and were given the worst, most risky jobs.

 

[qwerty]

How about the Washington Gingers?
Or if it needs to have red in the title, Redcoats? Get the British onboard.

 

[madguy30]

This is my number one choice. It just works so well with name and color scheme Washington wants to keep while also being a little woke.

But...

I was talking with someone about this idea and they said someone out there will try to cancel this too. I haven't fact checked this but they claim the Redtails, while having the ability to be the first black airmen, were still segregated from the white airmen and were given the worst, most risky jobs.

Perhaps it's something that can be added to the conversation like the Jack Trice story or others. He was treated poorly including the notion that his death wasn't accidental.

 

[Farnsworth]

I don't care either way, but this culture is getting ridiculous. Tornadoes and Hurricanes kill people every year, if I had a family member killed by one I'm offended and our name should be changed.

You can literally make a case for about any team, you just have to make a stink about it. When I lived in Omaha people associated cornhuskers with hillbillies and us city folk didn't enjoy that.

Let's just get rid of mascots and nicknames and go full on euroleague, they can be Washington FC (football club).

 

[Sigmapolis]

This is my number one choice. It just works so well with name and color scheme Washington wants to keep while also being a little woke.

But...

I was talking with someone about this idea and they said someone out there will try to cancel this too. I haven't fact checked this but they claim the Redtails, while having the ability to be the first black airmen, were still segregated from the white airmen and were given the worst, most risky jobs.

Considering the general rottenness of the human species and the various tragedies of our history, one could cancel *anything* if they really wanted to.

Heck, there is a small movement to cancel Hamilton. It portrays the American founding in a positive and uncritical fashion, has very little mention of slavery, and the history it emphasizes is the "dead White men" style of history regarding politics, fiscal policy, philosophy, and the biographies of "great men" like Hamilton, Washington, and Jefferson.

Having a mostly non-White cast and a score inspired by funk, R&B, and hip hop does not necessarily protect you from portraying a "problematic" and simplistic version of the history. Granted, that movement has gotten nowhere, but they tried.

I think you and I would agree that cancelling "Redtails" is crazy. I think corporate sponsors, who are really calling the shots, would agree. We are not supposed to honor the Redtails because they suffered discrimination and showed the bravery to take on the most dangerous missions despite what their country showed them?

Our stadium is named after a young Black man who died from injuries sustained in a game -- ones he likely sustained because of racial animus. Are we not supposed to honor Jack Trice because he was a victim? How should the story of the Redtails and Jack Trice not be an inspiration? That is something FedEx can get behind.

I don't care either way, but this culture is getting ridiculous. Tornadoes and Hurricanes kill people every year, if I had a family member killed by one I'm offended and our name should be changed.

You can literally make a case for about any team, you just have to make a stink about it. When I lived in Omaha people associated cornhuskers with hillbillies and us city folk didn't enjoy that.

Let's just get rid of mascots and nicknames and go full on euroleague, they can be the Washington FC (football club).

Such an association with soccer and Europe would trigger me.

 

[madguy30]

I don't care either way, but this culture is getting ridiculous. Tornadoes and Hurricanes kill people every year, if I had a family member killed by one I'm offended and our name should be changed.

You can literally make a case for about any team, you just have to make a stink about it. When I lived in Omaha people associated cornhuskers with hillbillies and us city folk didn't enjoy that.

Let's just get rid of mascots and nicknames and go full on euroleague, they can be the Washington FC (football club).

I agree that it's a slippery slope if you really get into things and there's many that go overboard with needing to be offended, but I don't think weather is a very good comparison.

 

[Mr Janny]

Considering the general rottenness of the human species and the various tragedies of our history, one could cancel *anything* if they really wanted to.

Heck, there is a small movement to cancel Hamilton. It portrays the American founding in a pretty uncritical fashion, has very little mention of slavery, and the history it emphasizes is the "dead White men" style of history regarding politics, fiscal policy, Enlightenment philosophy, and the biographies of "great men" like Hamilton.

Having a mostly non-White cast and a score inspired by funk, R&B, and hip hop does not necessarily protect you from portraying a "problematic" version of the history. Granted, that movement has gotten nowhere, but they tried.

I think you and I would agree that cancelling "Redtails" is crazy. I think corporate sponsors, who are really calling the shots, would agree. We are not supposed to honor the Redtails because they suffered discrimination and showed the bravery to take on the most dangerous missions despite what their country showed them?

That is something FedEx can get behind.



Such an association with soccer and Europe would trigger me.

That's all that needs to be said. That's why this change was made. Dan Snyder doesn't care about people's complaints. He doesn't care about "cancel culture". He cares about money. Capitalism changed the mascot. No law was forcing him to do it. He read the market forces and that's all it took. That's how it's supposed to work in our economic system.

 

[Farnsworth]

Considering the general rottenness of the human species and the various tragedies of our history, one could cancel *anything* if they really wanted to.

Heck, there is a small movement to cancel Hamilton. It portrays the American founding in a positive and uncritical fashion, has very little mention of slavery, and the history it emphasizes is the "dead White men" style of history regarding politics, fiscal policy, philosophy, and the biographies of "great men" like Hamilton, Washington, and Jefferson.

Having a mostly non-White cast and a score inspired by funk, R&B, and hip hop does not necessarily protect you from portraying a "problematic" and simplistic version of the history. Granted, that movement has gotten nowhere, but they tried.


Such an association with soccer and Europe would trigger me.

That Hamilton thing is dumb, it's a stylized version. Look up any of the actual stories/fairy tales like Disney movies and it's all pretty brutal. Boycott Disney!

And shame on you for putting the European man down.

 

[Farnsworth]

I agree that it's a slippery slope if you really get into things and there's many that go overboard with needing to be offended, but I don't think weather is a very good comparison.

Sorry I forgot the jimlad, it was meant to be a crappy sarcastic comparison .

 

[Mr Janny]

Sorry I forgot the jimlad, it was meant to be a crappy sarcastic comparison .

Poe's law, man!

 

[Sigmapolis]

That Hamilton thing is dumb, it's a stylized version. Look up any of the actual stories/fairy tales like Disney movies and it's all pretty brutal. Boycott Disney!

And shame on you for putting the European man down.

Disney is nothing but patriarchal, Eurocentric, and heteronormative garbage.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Should be the Washington Warriors IMO. Use the old spear head logo. Keep the colors. Move on with our petty lives.