Grinnell cancels fall sports

[yowza]

129,000/2,680,000=??? pretty sure I've already had it as well as others I know who thing the same..

And if you look at IDPH numbers for known cases,

0-17 yrs 0 deaths

18-40 yrs 17 deaths but only 2 without preexisting condition. Positive case death rate 0.01% if no health condition and that is using only known cases. So much less than that tiny number if unknown cases factored in.

41-60 yrs 74 deaths but only 8 without preexisting condition. Positive case death rate 0.08% if no health condition and that is using only known cases. Much less if unknown cases factored in.

So from 0 to 60 yrs of age, which is school age and working age, the death rate if you are healthy is probably around regular flu or less. But we gotta shut everything down and keep everyone home even though these are the people who need educating and to work to carry on society. The elderly groups (> 61 yrs) should stay in if not comfortable out and about.

 

[Sigmapolis]

@Gunnerclone, you know I love you, but acting like this crisis is without trade-offs is silly. You are right people losing their ability to watch football is weak sauce, but there are millions of people out there losing their life savings, their livelihoods, and about to be thrown out of their homes because they cannot make mortgage or rent payments. All that is going to have some big impacts on mental and physical health even beyond the obvious impacts to economic security that come with our worst crisis of the past 80+ years.

Do I know the right mixture of risk and reward right now? No. Nobody does.

But to act like public health measures are cost-less is just silly. There are roughly ~75 million Americans under the age of 18 who are trending towards losing a year of school here soon. Is cancelling that worth it? Maybe, I do not know, but idling all those young minds so they can play Fortnite all day long has a cost associated with it.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Testing is still way behind. Remember that Covid19 deaths are only attributed to those who have been tested. There are likely many more deaths attributed to pneumonia that might have been Covid19 deaths. So assuming Covid19 cases are under reported, then deaths due to Covid19 are under reported as well.

Likely not nearly as under reported as a percentage as cases. It's probably not even close.

I'm still not really sure why people seem to want this to be worse than it is. It's a virus incredibly lethal to the older population and not very lethal to people under 40. We should be acting accordingly rather than pretending it's worth it to lock everyone down for a year or more.

Want to know what would have helped? Managing LTC facilities the correct way rather than pretty much treating them like many places did. That would have been a huge help.

 

[Tre4ISU]

@Gunnerclone, you know I love you, but acting like this crisis is without trade-offs is silly. You are right people losing their ability to watch football is weak sauce, but there are millions of people out there losing their life savings, their livelihoods, and about to be thrown out of their homes because they cannot make mortgage or rent payments. All that is going to have some big impacts on mental and physical health even beyond the obvious impacts to economic security that come with our worst crisis of the past 80+ years.

Do I know the right mixture of risk and reward right now? No. Nobody does.

But to act like public health measures are cost-less is just silly. There are roughly ~75 million Americans under the age of 18 who are trending towards losing a year of school here soon. Is cancelling that worth it? Maybe, I do not know, but idling all those young minds so they can play Fortnite all day long has a cost associated with it.

I agree. I don't know what the right thing to do is and I have no idea where you draw the lines but a complete lockup of the country just isn't feasible.

It would also help if people could be trusted on their own to limit spread but this country is stupid so here we are.

 

[madguy30]

I agree. I don't know what the right thing to do is and I have no idea where you draw the lines but a complete lockup of the country just isn't feasible.

It would also help if people could be trusted on their own to limit spread but this country is stupid so here we are.

Was going to post something similar.

Imo slowing things down to give time for learning more was OK, but with even gradual re-openings there was a 'all's clear' type of feeling in a lot of places instead of any buy in to still be careful and cautious.

 

[Farnsworth]

One side effect is the virus spreads through every thread. This discussion quickly turned into debates had in 15 other threads and is way off topic from the original post.

 

[motorcy90]

They are amazing students playing glorified intramurals. They are a low level Div III. Grinnell's high school teams could probably beat them.

Okay - so D-III sports suck. With that operational definition, I guess you are correct.

schools like Wartburg, Central, Uni. of W Whitewater. I would call good schools for sports if you can't make a D1 roster for some reason. But yeah Grinnell is pretty much a high school team with all seniors in comparison, probably more then a few HS teams who could match or beat them. I wonder how much of this will carry over to their other sports seasons and if this is really more of a cost savings for them... I don't think low level DIII sports is a huge money maker for them.

 

[Acylum]

Likely not nearly as under reported as a percentage as cases. It's probably not even close.

I'm still not really sure why people seem to want this to be worse than it is. It's a virus incredibly lethal to the older population and not very lethal to people under 40. We should be acting accordingly rather than pretending it's worth it to lock everyone down for a year or more.

Want to know what would have helped? Managing LTC facilities the correct way rather than pretty much treating them like many places did. That would have been a huge help.

H1N1 was much more deadly in the 40 and under group, regardless of morbidities. For some reason, nobody really cared back then.

 

[madguy30]

H1N1 was much more deadly in the 40 and under group, regardless of morbidities. For some reason, nobody really cared back then.

I cared and recall seeing lots about it and being warned pretty frequently for it. The thing I remember the most for some reason is long lines for a vaccine, but the vaccine at least was available by October.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-pandemic-timeline.html

It got less coverage because the death numbers vs. infection were way less. 12-18,000 deaths via Covid wouldn't be getting this sort of response.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

Of note, I don't remember anything about how older people already had antibodies from previous flus...kind of reminds of some of the stuff out there about potential immunity to Covid if people have had other coronaviruses recently.

 

[kentkel]

schools like Wartburg, Central, Uni. of W Whitewater. I would call good schools for sports if you can't make a D1 roster for some reason. But yeah Grinnell is pretty much a high school team with all seniors in comparison, probably more then a few HS teams who could match or beat them. I wonder how much of this will carry over to their other sports seasons and if this is really more of a cost savings for them... I don't think low level DIII sports is a huge money maker for them.

My beef wasn't that the OP had an issue with D-3 sports. I, too, would rather watch D-1 sports. The OP cut into ALL Grinnell College sports (blanket statement). I gave solid examples of GC's excellence in a few of those sports. XC (M&W), Tennis(W) and MBB are very good for a small school like Grinnell.
NO WAY IN HECK will a typical HS team match up with those 4 sports. For example, I'm a HS tennis coach and have watched Grinnell College's tennis teams. IOWA HS state tennis place-winners would likely have a very difficult time being one of the top players on the team. Our all-time winningest GHS Female tennis player (4 year state qualifier and 2 time place-winner), joined the College's team after she graduated. However, she wasn't able to truly contribute meaningfully until her Senior year & was still the lowest position on the team.
Another example: our high school has a VERY STRONG Cross-Country team (boys and girls teams both are consistent state qualifiers). We have had top 10 state-level place winners at our HS that have gone on to Grinnell College and cannot maintain the same level of success they had in HS. Why, because, just like the W tennis team - the skill level of these athletes are much higher.
If you actually watched some of these teams - I think you would be impressed. Again, not D-1, but MUCH, MUCH higher than HS. If you or the OP have watched any of these 4 teams perform & still have come to the conclusion that they should just "shut their sports down," then fine. But if you have NOT witnessed them in action - it really makes your argument (i.e. to shut the sports down) much less convincing.

 

[ISUTex]

My beef wasn't that the OP had an issue with D-3 sports. I, too, would rather watch D-1 sports. The OP cut into ALL Grinnell College sports (blanket statement). I gave solid examples of GC's excellence in a few of those sports. XC (M&W), Tennis(W) and MBB are very good for a small school like Grinnell.
NO WAY IN HECK will a typical HS team match up with those 4 sports. For example, I'm a HS tennis coach and have watched Grinnell College's tennis teams. IOWA HS state tennis place-winners would likely have a very difficult time being one of the top players on the team. Our all-time winningest GHS Female tennis player (4 year state qualifier and 2 time place-winner), joined the College's team after she graduated. However, she wasn't able to truly contribute meaningfully until her Senior year & was still the lowest position on the team.
Another example: our high school has a VERY STRONG Cross-Country team (boys and girls teams both are consistent state qualifiers). We have had top 10 state-level place winners at our HS that have gone on to Grinnell College and cannot maintain the same level of success they had in HS. Why, because, just like the W tennis team - the skill level of these athletes are much higher.
If you actually watched some of these teams - I think you would be impressed. Again, not D-1, but MUCH, MUCH higher than HS. If you or the OP have watched any of these 4 teams perform & still have come to the conclusion that they should just "shut their sports down," then fine. But if you have NOT witnessed them in action - it really makes your argument (i.e. to shut the sports down) much less convincing.

The Crazy Rhubarb Lady (From Grinnell by the way) could beat the Women's tennis team by herself.

 

[ISUTex]

Okay - so D-III sports suck. With that operational definition, I guess you are correct.

No, Grinnell's DIII sports suck. Well, their conference sucks. And they are pretty average in their conference. Look, D3 is for average high school athletes who don't want to hang it up yet. Then they teach art, music, or PE, and coach. It's not even 1AA, or D2, or even NAIA. It's a slight step up from a bunch of dudes in the dorm organizing a Tuesday night basketball intramural team. Women's DIII Tennis? OMG don't even get me started.

 

[motorcy90]

My beef wasn't that the OP had an issue with D-3 sports. I, too, would rather watch D-1 sports. The OP cut into ALL Grinnell College sports (blanket statement). I gave solid examples of GC's excellence in a few of those sports. XC (M&W), Tennis(W) and MBB are very good for a small school like Grinnell.
NO WAY IN HECK will a typical HS team match up with those 4 sports. For example, I'm a HS tennis coach and have watched Grinnell College's tennis teams. IOWA HS state tennis place-winners would likely have a very difficult time being one of the top players on the team. Our all-time winningest GHS Female tennis player (4 year state qualifier and 2 time place-winner), joined the College's team after she graduated. However, she wasn't able to truly contribute meaningfully until her Senior year & was still the lowest position on the team.
Another example: our high school has a VERY STRONG Cross-Country team (boys and girls teams both are consistent state qualifiers). We have had top 10 state-level place winners at our HS that have gone on to Grinnell College and cannot maintain the same level of success they had in HS. Why, because, just like the W tennis team - the skill level of these athletes are much higher.
If you actually watched some of these teams - I think you would be impressed. Again, not D-1, but MUCH, MUCH higher than HS. If you or the OP have watched any of these 4 teams perform & still have come to the conclusion that they should just "shut their sports down," then fine. But if you have NOT witnessed them in action - it really makes your argument (i.e. to shut the sports down) much less convincing.

depends on your level of High school I bet though. 4A boys/5A girls teams?? do you really think they are that much better then say Dowling/Valley/Bettendorf on the football front, teams that do send D1 talent regularly and in other sports too?? TJ Goetz(spelling??) only played a few games my junior year before Joel Lanning took over as a freshman... TJ only ever played at Grinnell... yet we know Joel quite well...

 

[ISUTex]

depends on your level of High school I bet though. 4A boys/5A girls teams?? do you really think they are that much better then say Dowling/Valley/Bettendorf on the football front, teams that do send D1 talent regularly and in other sports too??

I'm guessing his daughter plays tennis at Grinnell. Good for her. She must be one heck of a student who loves the game of Tennis, and will probably make a bunch of money some day. He should be proud.

 

[ISUTex]

My beef wasn't that the OP had an issue with D-3 sports. I, too, would rather watch D-1 sports. The OP cut into ALL Grinnell College sports (blanket statement). I gave solid examples of GC's excellence in a few of those sports. XC (M&W), Tennis(W) and MBB are very good for a small school like Grinnell.
NO WAY IN HECK will a typical HS team match up with those 4 sports. For example, I'm a HS tennis coach and have watched Grinnell College's tennis teams. IOWA HS state tennis place-winners would likely have a very difficult time being one of the top players on the team. Our all-time winningest GHS Female tennis player (4 year state qualifier and 2 time place-winner), joined the College's team after she graduated. However, she wasn't able to truly contribute meaningfully until her Senior year & was still the lowest position on the team.
Another example: our high school has a VERY STRONG Cross-Country team (boys and girls teams both are consistent state qualifiers). We have had top 10 state-level place winners at our HS that have gone on to Grinnell College and cannot maintain the same level of success they had in HS. Why, because, just like the W tennis team - the skill level of these athletes are much higher.
If you actually watched some of these teams - I think you would be impressed. Again, not D-1, but MUCH, MUCH higher than HS. If you or the OP have watched any of these 4 teams perform & still have come to the conclusion that they should just "shut their sports down," then fine. But if you have NOT witnessed them in action - it really makes your argument (i.e. to shut the sports down) much less convincing.

I've watched Grinnell's men's bball team. IT's a joke. They played a terrible Drake team several years ago and gave up, like, 160 points. I've seen better basketball at 7th grade travel team tournaments.

 

[motorcy90]

I'm guessing his daughter plays tennis at Grinnell. Good for her. She must be one heck of a student who loves the game of Tennis, and will probably make a bunch of money some day. He should be proud.

My dad was JV QB at Wartburg after playing at a 1A school... and my sister was 1st basemen for softball there as well from Ankeny... buddy down the street did make a bit of a run as a CC/track runner there though... still way above Grinnell..

 

[kentkel]

depends on your level of High school I bet though. 4A boys/5A girls teams?? do you really think they are that much better then say Dowling/Valley/Bettendorf on the football front, teams that do send D1 talent regularly and in other sports too??

Dude - go back to my ORIGINAL REPLY to ISUtex. I conceded that some of those teams were terrible - specifically FBall. If it was only about FB, I would have not even responded to the OP in the first place.
I would put the 4 GC teams I listed as examples as "good teams" against any 4-5A team in the state. M Basketball would probably not win if you had a team like H-Barnes' Ames team, or a team with multiple D-1/mid-major players. Even then, GC's coach was a former NBA D-League coach (Reno) - so he would have a huge coaching advantage over even a decent HS coach (and he has a unique system that many HS teams would have difficulty adjusting to). The other 3 sports? - I would put them up against any 4-5A school in the state.

 

[motorcy90]

Dude - go back to my ORIGINAL REPLY to ISUtex. I conceded that some of those teams were terrible - specifically FBall. If it was only about FB, I would have not even responded to the OP in the first place.
I would put the 4 GC teams I listed as examples as "good teams" against any 4-5A team in the state. M Basketball would probably not win if you had a team like H-Barnes' Ames team, or a team with multiple D-1/mid-major players. Even then, GC's coach was a former NBA D-League coach (Reno) - so he would have a huge coaching advantage over even a decent HS coach (and he has a unique system that many HS teams would have difficulty adjusting to). The other 3 sports? - I would put them up against any 4-5A school in the state.

so as I alluded too they are basically a high school team loaded with seniors really on all/most fronts....

 

[kentkel]

I'm guessing his daughter plays tennis at Grinnell. Good for her. She must be one heck of a student who loves the game of Tennis, and will probably make a bunch of money some day. He should be proud.

My daughter does not go to GC. I am not defending anyone in my family who plays sports at GC because they do not go to GC! You completely missed the mark on that one. My other two daughters (twins) will be Frosh at ISU this year. Also, I NEVER once bragged about any of my daughters - NEVER brought them up into the previous convo. The girl I was referring to was a senior when my daughter was a HS Frosh. This is the problem with trying to debate in a civil manner in today's society. I tried to defend a position why GC should NOT throw out all their sports & you resort to assumptions - completely way off-base. Not sure where that is coming from. If our society is to get better - we gotta learn to agree to disagree. I wasn't trying to win a battle with you or your buddy - just trying to point out some things that are at issue with your perspective. Aren't persuaded, fine. Just dial down the personal attacks/sarcastic quips directed at my daughter - especially since I NEVER referred to her in my previous posts!!

If you want to keep ripping into my position - that is fine. But I will ask you to REFRAIN from assuming ANYTHING about my daughters and then POSTING about them to gain sarcastic points with other posters.

 

[BCClone]

I have said that DIII sports is basically taking HS and getting rid of the kids who never started. Many of these schools would not exist if it wasn’t for sports now. Why pay 25k to go to a central/Simpson when you can pay 20k to go to a regents school? I had a talk to a Waldorf admissions officer several years ado when they were in financial trouble. I asked why they didnt drop sports, was told that 83% of their students are in a sport so they couldn’t. My son had a scholly at an NAIA and chose ISU in the end, he realized that his degree from ISU would serve him much better than the small school and that he would need to quit playing sometime.

I walked away from D2 for the same reason. It’s nice to have fun, but unless you are getting college paid for, I believe it’s better to consider your degree first. DIII sports are basically glorified HS sports.