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CyTwins

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What are you talking about? The Big XII has good offenses and the Big Ten has good defenses. Has any Iowa fan disputed that? Don’t act like y’all are above the fray on this point - why do Iowa State fans get so offended when you point out that offensive players in the Big XII have inflated stats due to playing bad defenses and running a ton of plays?

You always mention inflated offensive numbers for the Big 12 teams but never mention inflated defensive numbers for Big Ten defenses
 

Statefan10

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Can't tell if this is a troll or not.
I don't think it is. He's entitled to his opinion even if that opinion is only based on the fact that Martinez played worse against good defenses due to him playing more of them.
 

JP4CY

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You always mention inflated offensive numbers for the Big 12 teams but never mention inflated defensive numbers for Big Ten defenses
Northwestern's offense last year was worse than anything I've ever seen. Ever.
 

JP4CY

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What are you talking about? The Big XII has good offenses and the Big Ten has good defenses. Has any Iowa fan disputed that? Don’t act like y’all are above the fray on this point - why do Iowa State fans get so offended when you point out that offensive players in the Big XII have inflated stats due to playing bad defenses and running a ton of plays?
You haven't been on this board during a football season yet. Remember?
Chill out man.
 

Legend Hawk

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That's fine. The fact of the matter is you can absolutely tell the good defenses and offenses in each conference apart from the fake ones.

Who would you say has a "good defense" in the Big12? I mean there wasn't an elite defense in all of the Big12. I'd say TCU's was "goodish", then I'd say Baylor, ISU and OU were "ok".

The actual good defenses are located in the SEC and Big10, then there are a few other schools from difference conferences sprinkled in that have top 25 defenses occasionally.
 

Statefan10

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Who would you say has a "good defense" in the Big12? I mean there wasn't an elite defense in all of the Big12. I'd say TCU's was "goodish", then I'd say Baylor, ISU and OU were "ok".

The actual good defenses are located in the SEC and Big10, then there are a few other schools from difference conferences sprinkled in that have top 25 defenses occasionally.
You're contradicting yourself by saying good defense and then assuming I said elite defense. I never said there was an elite defense in the Big 12. If OU had an elite defense the past few years, they likely win a title or two. That's been their crutch. The Big 10 has better defenses. I'm not arguing that. They also have flat out awful offenses. The same goes for the Big 12. They have overall better offenses, but also have pathetic defenses.
 
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Who would you say has a "good defense" in the Big12? I mean there wasn't an elite defense in all of the Big12. I'd say TCU's was "goodish", then I'd say Baylor, ISU and OU were "ok".

The actual good defenses are located in the SEC and Big10, then there are a few other schools from difference conferences sprinkled in that have top 25 defenses occasionally.
Oklahoma has really fallen off with regards to defense. They looked utterly lost (on defense) in the second half against the clones and looked even worse against a slightly above average Kansas State team.
 

Legend Hawk

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You're contradicting yourself by saying good defense and then assuming I said elite defense. I never said there was an elite defense in the Big 12. If OU had an elite defense the past few years, they likely win a title or two. That's been their crutch. The Big 10 has better defenses. I'm not arguing that. They also have flat out awful offenses. The same goes for the Big 12. They have overall better offenses, but also have pathetic defenses.

I think there was 1 good defense in the Big12, that is it. Not because the offenses they player were better, but because it was a good defense. Same with Big10 teams like Wisconsin, OSU, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota all had very good/elite defenses. They were good no matter who they played, good offense or bad offense.
 

Statefan10

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I think there was 1 good defense in the Big12, that is it. Not because the offenses they player were better, but because it was a good defense. Same with Big10 teams like Wisconsin, OSU, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota all had very good/elite defenses. They were good no matter who they played, good offense or bad offense.
Ohio State beat Northwestern (who supposedly had a good defense) 52-3. Ohio State beat Wisconsin 38-7 the first time. Ohio State beat Penn State 28-7 (respectable). Ohio State beat Michigan 56-27 (great defensive Big 10 battle), Ohio State beat Wisconsin 34-21 in the Big 10 title game.
 
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Ohio State beat Northwestern (who supposedly had a good defense) 52-3. Ohio State beat Wisconsin 38-7 the first time. Ohio State beat Penn State 28-7 (respectable). Ohio State beat Michigan 56-27 (great defensive Big 10 battle), Ohio State beat Wisconsin 34-21 in the Big 10 title game.
Michigan beat Notre Dame 45 - 14. Didn't you (or some other clone fan) just use Notre Dame as an example of a top tier defense - that ISU played this past season? Does that outcome make you think differently of Notre Dame's defense....even after ND beat the clones 33 - 9?
 

Stewo

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Michigan beat Notre Dame 45 - 14. Didn't you (or some other clone fan) just use Notre Dame as an example of a top tier defense - that ISU played this past season? Does that outcome make you think differently of Notre Dame's defense....even after ND beat the clones 33 - 9?
ISU had no business playing ND last season. We should have been two rungs down the bowl list. We really weren't that good.
 

Statefan10

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Michigan beat Notre Dame 45 - 14. Didn't you (or some other clone fan) just use Notre Dame as an example of a top tier defense - that ISU played this past season? Does that outcome make you think differently of Notre Dame's defense....even after ND beat the clones 33 - 9?
I'm not here arguing what Notre Dame did. I'm talking about the Big 10. I think their defenses are very good. No question about it. I was just pointing out that an elite offense destroyed those great defenses.

Michigan had a great day on offense that game. They absolutely rolled the Irish. I pointed out Notre Dame's passing offense as being good, which it was. That game they only gave up 134 yards on 8 completions but 3 went for TD's. Rushing wise, Michigan ran the ball 57 times for over 300 yards. They wore them out lol.
 

SouthernCy

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You're contradicting yourself by saying good defense and then assuming I said elite defense. I never said there was an elite defense in the Big 12. If OU had an elite defense the past few years, they likely win a title or two. That's been their crutch. The Big 10 has better defenses. I'm not arguing that. They also have flat out awful offenses. The same goes for the Big 12. They have overall better offenses, but also have pathetic defenses.
I'd just stop arguing with him. He will never admit that the Big10's defenses are inflated because they play against teams that don't even have a pulse offensively. He will continue to push his narrative which is the "the Big 12 is garbage and the Big 10/Big10 West is all that is every holy"
 

Statefan10

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I'd just stop arguing with him. He will never admit that the Big10's defenses are inflated because they play against teams that don't even have a pulse offensively. He will continue to push his narrative which is the "the Big 12 is garbage and the Big 10/Big10 West is all that is every holy"
It's just dumb lol. You can hold the opinion that the Big 10's defenses are inflated and the Big 12 offenses are inflated as well. You can't argue one while simultaneously denying the other.
 

Gitwitit

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I'm not here arguing what Notre Dame did. I'm talking about the Big 10. I think their defenses are very good. No question about it. I was just pointing out that an elite offense destroyed those great defenses.

Michigan had a great day on offense that game. They absolutely rolled the Irish. I pointed out Notre Dame's passing offense as being good, which it was. That game they only gave up 134 yards on 8 completions but 3 went for TD's. Rushing wise, Michigan ran the ball 57 times for over 300 yards. They wore them out lol.

I'm not sure it's fair to use an elite "team" as your reference point when making that argument. OSU's defense was salty and deserves much of the credit in those lopsided wins.
 

Statefan10

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I'm not sure it's fair to use an elite "team" as your reference point when making that argument. OSU's defense was salty and deserves much of the credit in those lopsided wins.
Yeah okay OSU was an outlier. They were like LSU and Clemson.
 

Gitwitit

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It's just dumb lol. You can hold the opinion that the Big 10's defenses are inflated and the Big 12 offenses are inflated as well. You can't argue one while simultaneously denying the other.
Look at non conference games for comparison. In the bowl games, the only Big Ten team that allowed their opponent to reach their season average scoring was Illinois that gave up 35 to Cal. That tells me that the Big Ten defenses were not inflated. Ohio State gave up 29 to Clemson who averaged 47. Wisconsin gave up 28 to Oregon who averaged 39. Michigan gave up 35 to Alabama who averaged 45. Minnesota gave up 24 to Auburn who averaged 33. Iowa gave up 24 to USC who averaged 33. Those are all games where the opponents were held at least a td under their scoring average.

The Big 12 only had 1 team score their season average in a bowl game and that was Texas. Baylor scored 14 and averaged 34. ISU scored 9 and averaged 30+. OK scored 28 and averaged 40+. KSU scored 17 and averaged 28.

Draw your own conclusions but it seems like a pretty good indicator that the Big 10 defenses lived up to their billing while the Big 12 offenses did not.
 

CyTwins

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Look at non conference games for comparison. In the bowl games, the only Big Ten team that allowed their opponent to reach their season average scoring was Illinois that gave up 35 to Cal. That tells me that the Big Ten defenses were not inflated. Ohio State gave up 29 to Clemson who averaged 47. Wisconsin gave up 28 to Oregon who averaged 39. Michigan gave up 35 to Alabama who averaged 45. Minnesota gave up 24 to Auburn who averaged 33. Iowa gave up 24 to USC who averaged 33. Those are all games where the opponents were held at least a td under their scoring average.

The Big 12 only had 1 team score their season average in a bowl game and that was Texas. Baylor scored 14 and averaged 34. ISU scored 9 and averaged 30+. OK scored 28 and averaged 40+. KSU scored 17 and averaged 28.

Draw your own conclusions but it seems like a pretty good indicator that the Big 10 defenses lived up to their billing while the Big 12 offenses did not.

I still can't believe Iowa gave up 24 points to USC when Slovis only played half the game