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surly

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May 16, 2013
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I never once used the word talent (though they will be a bottom 3 team in terms of talent).

Please refute this, K-State lost:
-top two running backs in terms of production
-leading receiver
-4 (but actually 5) starting offensive linemen.
-9 of 16 tacklers.

These are literally statistical facts. K-State lost a ton and will be in the 6-7 win category, thus 6.5 is perfect for them.


Yes, facts are stubborn little things. Another truism: there's nothing so deceptive as an obvious fact. So, let me go fact by fact here about what K-State lost.

-top two running backs in terms of production: the best running back at season's close was the kid who tore up ISU, he's now a redshirt freshman, Jacardia Wright. He was hurt all season until Ames. Both fullbacks return.
-leading receiver: best receiver is now-sophomore Malik Harris. He was also injured most of the year. Any K-State fan or media expert would confirm that fact.
-4 (but actually 5) starting offensive linemen: K-State's only all-B12 lineman was now-junior Josh Rivas. He didn't start, correct. The fact is this was not a stellar line last year. Tight end returns and UNI grad, Briley Moore, transfers in.
-9 of 16 tacklers: best player on the squad is now-junior all-B12 d'end Wyatt Hubert. Returning from injury is captain Justin Hughes who didn't suit up last year. The fact is that this defense will be a load with Elijah Sullivan, A.J. Parker, and many others returning.

But your facts - albeit completely misleading - are correct. Remember, I'm not making a case that this is a B12 championship-level team, I'm only saying that 6.5 wins given they won 8 in coach Klieman's first year is, in fact, a safer bet than most.




 
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TheJackWePack5

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Yes, facts are stubborn little things. Another truism: there's nothing so deceptive as an obvious fact. So, let me go fact by fact here about what K-State lost.

-top two running backs in terms of production: the best running back at season's close was the kid who tore up ISU, he's now a redshirt freshman, Jacardia Wright. He was hurt all season until Ames. Both fullbacks return.
-leading receiver: best receiver is now-sophomore Malik Harris. He was also injured most of the year. Any K-State fan would confirm that fact.
-4 (but actually 5) starting offensive linemen: only all-B12 lineman was now-junior Josh Rivas. He didn't start, correct. The fact is this was not a stellar line last year. Tight end returns and UNI grad transfers in, Briley Moore.
-9 of 16 tacklers: best player on the squad is now-junior all-B12 d'end Wyatt Hubert. Returning from injury is captain Justin Hughes who didn't suit up last year. The fact is that this defense will be a load with Elijah Sullivan, A.J. Parker, and many others returning.

But your facts albeit completely misleading are correct. Remember, I'm not making a case that this is a B12 championship-level team, I'm only saying that 6.5 wins given they won 8 last year is in fact a safer bet than most.



I think K-State will be a solid team. I’d put them at 7 wins, which is why I think 6.5 is about right. Kansas St going 6-6 wouldn’t surprise anyone.

I just think it’s outlandish/homerish that all of these players that hardly saw the field are so much better than those that helped win 8 games.
 

Aclone

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It's always customary to attack the messenger when you don't have an argument because you're completely wrong on talent.

Starting QB, wideouts, running backs, tight end, all-conference guard, all-conference d'end, linebackers, corners, safety, kicker, freshman all-American kick returner all return, plus excellent grad transfer.

Again, 6.5 wins is low for K-State. I'm not arguing a championship season here.
Weird, since I’m looking at your depth charts from last season, and see that all the defense returns is that good defensive end, a linebacker, a corner, a safety and whatever rover position you have, IIRC.

Top WR Schoen is gone, both tight ends were seniors, unless someone magically got a sixth you only return a quarterback, fullback and one wideout on offense.

For some of that, I even cross checked the official 2020 Spring roster. So, are you lying to us, Surly—or just to yourself?

inquiring minds want to know.

Especially since the main reason Kleiman was as successful as he was last year was because he inherited a boatload of returning starters. Sorry, it’s gonna take him time to get his recruits in place.

Someone said that 6.5 was “perfect” for the Wildcats.I also checked the schedule. I have no idea how good Buffalo, North Dakota and Vanderbilt are going to be, but since you get them all at home, I’ll give you those three as wins—for the sake of this argument.

But even after I give KU as the fourth win (not a sure thing), I’m not sure where you’re getting the rest at. Tech at home would be nice—but they’re going to have an explosive offense, and K-State definitely won’t. And won’t have the same defense as last year to help. And TCU, Baylor and WVU on the road? Good luck with that.

Yep, 6.5 is perfect for K-State. Perfect to take the under. :)
 

TheJackWePack5

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Weird, since I’m looking at your depth charts from last season, and see that all the defense returns is that good defensive end, a linebacker, a corner, a safety and whatever rover position you have, IIRC.

Top WR Schoen is gone, both tight ends were seniors, unless someone magically got a sixth you only return a quarterback, fullback and one wideout on offense.

For some of that, I even cross checked the official 2020 Spring roster. So, are you lying to us, Surly—or just to yourself?

inquiring minds want to know.

Especially since the main reason Kleiman was as successful as he was last year was because he inherited a boatload of returning starters. Sorry, it’s gonna take him time to get his recruits in place.

Someone said that 6.5 was “perfect” for the Wildcats.I also checked the schedule. I have no idea how good Buffalo, North Dakota and Vanderbilt are going to be, but since you get them all at home, I’ll give you those three as wins—for the sake of this argument.

But even after I give KU as the fourth win (not a sure thing), I’m not sure where you’re getting the rest at. Tech at home would be nice—but they’re going to have an explosive offense, and K-State definitely won’t. And won’t have the same defense as last year to help. And TCU, Baylor and WVU on the road? Good luck with that.

Yep, 6.5 is perfect for K-State. Perfect to take the under. :)
Surly is full of delusion about this subject.

According to him K-State “won’t be Big 12 championship caliber,” yet all of the players they return or that will play are supposedly more talented than the guys that left from the 8 win team.

Odd stuff.
 
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Aclone

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Yes, facts are stubborn little things. Another truism: there's nothing so deceptive as an obvious fact. So, let me go fact by fact here about what K-State lost.

-top two running backs in terms of production: the best running back at season's close was the kid who tore up ISU, he's now a redshirt freshman, Jacardia Wright. He was hurt all season until Ames. Both fullbacks return.
-leading receiver: best receiver is now-sophomore Malik Harris. He was also injured most of the year. Any K-State fan or media expert would confirm that fact.
-4 (but actually 5) starting offensive linemen: K-State's only all-B12 lineman was now-junior Josh Rivas. He didn't start, correct. The fact is this was not a stellar line last year. Tight end returns and UNI grad, Briley Moore, transfers in.
-9 of 16 tacklers: best player on the squad is now-junior all-B12 d'end Wyatt Hubert. Returning from injury is captain Justin Hughes who didn't suit up last year. The fact is that this defense will be a load with Elijah Sullivan, A.J. Parker, and many others returning.

But your facts - albeit completely misleading - are correct. Remember, I'm not making a case that this is a B12 championship-level team, I'm only saying that 6.5 wins given they won 8 in coach Klieman's first year is, in fact, a safer bet than most.



Facts are indeed stubborn little things, aren’t they, Surly?

I am sitting here marveling at.all of the ways you lie to us. Especially when some of your “facts” are so easily checked.

I already confirmed that both tight ends were seniors. I’ll ask again. Did they both get sixth years?

Whatever his talent, Jacardia Wright did not “tear up” ISU. Sixty yards, thirty-seven of which came on a broken play, does not constitute “tearing up”.

As far as Wright being the “best at the end of the year”, Brown ran for 92 against us. At the end of the year. Don’t try to claim that you return your best running back.

Six players returning—counting your injured player—from a defense that struggled to stop the run, especially only a single player up front, does not make for a defense that is “a load”.

As I said before, the whole reason Klieman was so successful last year was because he inherited a ton of returning starters. That’s not the case this year.

You outright lied about your offensive line. Your one all conference OL was Scott Frantz, who was second team. There were two honorable mention OL guys—and neither was named Rivas.

https://admin.big12sports.com/news/2019/12/4/2019-all-big-12-football-awards-announced.aspx
 

Aclone

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Yep, if kid can keep his head on straight.

Biggest thing for them is need Duggan to improve significantly.
I think he’ll be okay—as long as they don’t try to take his cell phone away. :rolleyes:

I’d expect Duggan to improve. The biggest reason I wouldn’t expect them to make a bigger jump is because Patterson will be inserting so many new pieces this season. Which means “nasty” in ‘21.
 

cycfan1

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Facts are indeed stubborn little things, aren’t they, Surly?

I am sitting here marveling at.all of the ways you lie to us. Especially when some of your “facts” are so easily checked.

I already confirmed that both tight ends were seniors. I’ll ask again. Did they both get sixth years?

Whatever his talent, Jacardia Wright did not “tear up” ISU. Sixty yards, thirty-seven of which came on a broken play, does not constitute “tearing up”.

As far as Wright being the “best at the end of the year”, Brown ran for 92 against us. At the end of the year. Don’t try to claim that you return your best running back.

Six players returning—counting your injured player—from a defense that struggled to stop the run, especially only a single player up front, does not make for a defense that is “a load”.

As I said before, the whole reason Klieman was so successful last year was because he inherited a ton of returning starters. That’s not the case this year.

You outright lied about your offensive line. Your one all conference OL was Scott Frantz, who was second team. There were two honorable mention OL guys—and neither was named Rivas.

https://admin.big12sports.com/news/2019/12/4/2019-all-big-12-football-awards-announced.aspx


Wright was so good in the ISU game, that KState held him to only 2 carries in the bowl game as to not showcase his skills for the upcoming season.
 
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surly

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I already confirmed that both tight ends were seniors. I’ll ask again. Did they both get sixth years?
87NICK LENNERS
  • POSITION Tight End
  • HEIGHT 6-5
  • WEIGHT 252
  • CLASS 2020Junior
  • HOMETOWNLincoln, Neb.
  • CAREER HONORS
• 2019 First Team All-Big 12 (Coaches)

Earned First-Team Academic All-Big 12 accolades.
 

surly

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Whatever his talent, Jacardia Wright did not “tear up” ISU. Sixty yards, thirty-seven of which came on a broken play, does not constitute “tearing up”.

Yes, he only averaged 10 yards per on six carries and a touchdown. I guess if he'd have average 20/carry that would have been more torn-up. And he was hurt in the Navy game.
 
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surly

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May 16, 2013
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Six players returning—counting your injured player—from a defense that struggled to stop the run, especially only a single player up front, does not make for a defense that is “a load”.

Wrong, seven starters returning - you meant to say starters not players.

DE Wyatt Hubert 2019 First-Team All-Big 12 (Coaches, Associated Press)
LB Elijah Sullivan• 2019 Honorable Mention All-Big 12 (Coaches)
LB Justin Hughes (Senior captain coming off injury)
C AJ Parker 2019 Honorable Mention All-Big 12 (Coaches)
C Lance Robinson
S Wayne Jones
N Jahron McPherson (forget this position in earlier post)
2019: Played in 13 games with 12 starts at nickelback, finishing fifth on the team with 36 tackles to go along with a tackle for loss and an interception… Registered a career-high six tackles at Mississippi State, a game in which he tallied his first-career tackle for loss… Picked off his second-career pass at Kansas… Had five stops in the regular-season finale against Iowa State and four tackles against Nicholls, Oklahoma State and Navy.
 
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surly

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You outright lied about your offensive line. Your one all conference OL was Scott Frantz, who was second team. There were two honorable mention OL guys—and neither was named Rivas.
JOSH RIVAS
  • POSITION Offensive Line
  • HEIGHT6-6
  • WEIGHT323
  • CLASS 2020Junior
  • HOMETOWNHutchinson, Kan.\


CAREER HONORS
• 2019 First-Team All-Big 12 (Associated Press)


2019: Played in all 13 games as a regular in the rotation at guard, earning First Team All-Big 12 honors from the Associated Press… Helped the Wildcats rank fourth in the Big 12 with 178.0 rushing yards per game and third in the league with 29 rushing touchdowns.

2018: Saw significant action at guard in all 12 games, including starts at TCU and Iowa State... Helped the Wildcats finish third in the Big 12 by averaging 182.6 rushing yards per game, which included a 184.2-yard average in conference games to rank second.
 
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surly

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So, do I get a mea culpa from being called a liar now, boys? Aclone, are you still there?

lip-fillers-1548777669.jpg
 
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cycfan1

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Yes, he only averaged 10 yards per on six carries and a touchdown. I guess if he'd have average 20/carry that would have been more torn-up. And he was hurt in the Navy game.

This is just like arguing with a brick wall.

Klieman gave his best running back his first carry with 6 minutes to go in the second quarter.

I can't refute if he got hurt or not because the game recap doesn't mention 5th string runningbacks.
 

surly

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This is just like arguing with a brick wall.

Klieman gave his best running back his first carry with 6 minutes to go in the second quarter.

I can't refute if he got hurt or not because the game recap doesn't mention 5th string runningbacks.

Yes, after being called a liar and in spite of going through Aclone's argument and showing the fallacies point-by-point, you choose to pick the one that was a subjective judgment, i.e. who was K-State's best running back coming out of last season with no mention of the last game - ISU, mind you on an ISU board, but rather on to the bowl game where he was injured. Now would you like to speak to Aclone's other points because even though I sit on the 40 and you in Ames, I'll give you Wright is not the best K-State back coming out of last season?
 
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