***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***

Sigmapolis

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Look, all i'm saying is that we assume because of their title they know what they are doing. Most coaches just got a break that other guys didn't, or hooked themselves up to the correct wagon when they were a 24 year old GA. Society loves to make Kings of Coaches and Owners or AD's. I will never understand why most fans always take the owner or coaches side in various contract disputes. The players are the ones doing the work, but yet we make statues of coaches.

Like Drs, and Financial Guys and various other institutions, just because they have the job doesn't mean they are an expert. Perhaps they are just winging it like the rest of us and taking it day by day. There really is nothing in Prohms resume that says he is an expert other than riding Billy Kennedys teams and taking over a decent program at ISU.

There is nothing that says those experts/professionals/people in elevated positions are guaranteed to be good at their jobs or know what they are doing. A healthy amount of skepticism is a good thing. Half of any population is by definition below the median, and you are right there are all sorts of ways that incompetent people can arrive in such positions through various means. I have met plenty of morons with degrees from Harvard, Yale, and Princeton out here who only went because of admissions practices that preference legacies, their family names, and/or their parents ability to pay for the tutoring and test practice from early childhood to drill them on meeting the admissions standards.

I have met plenty of geniuses from those places, too, but I have met as equally intelligent people with degrees from places like Penn State and Minnesota, as well.

What you are wrong about though is are those various expert populations any better or worse than the whole of the population if you were to just choose somebody randomly off the street. Yes, some basketball coaches are not good basketball coaches, but Prohm is a better coach than any one of us by several miles. I think you are also underrating just how complex the world is... nobody knows anything, even sometimes with those who spend their lives dedicated to studying a single subject. That is not a failing on their part or on a field's fault, but rather just a somber acknowledgment that the world is a complex place and conditions can change extremely quickly. This is the weirdest spring recruiting cycle we will ever have, but I think waiting for guys who can move the needle on Prohm's part is a better strategy than filling up for filling up's sake. Better to have the open spots for late transfers, if the transfer rule opens up, for midyears, or for freshmen next year than to stock ourselves with Jeff Beverly and Prentiss Nixon clones, right?
 
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jmb

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Strawman is the best you’ve got?

Results matter, misses don’t.
At what juncture do you deem misses "results"? It seems as though you are staking a claim that misses are immaterial. If there remains any overwhelming number of misses when do you move them to results?
 

LLCoolCY

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Coming into last year Nixon wasn’t thought to be a Beverly.

Very true. I will say that Nixon committed early in the transfer season with little fanfare. At least I was a bit underwhelmed and he played to my expectations. He performed at that level high effort but not a game changer and a bit stretched for as a B12 starter. He would have been a good fit as 6-7th man off the bench if THT, LW and Lard would have been on last years team, which the staff was projecting. Things change fast in P6 MBB.

My thought is the staff learned from taking role player type transfers early in the season and only going after high impact transfers that will impact the line up. Instead having patience later in the season if higher level players become available and maybe even holding a spot for a midseason transfer. I suspect this is why the staff slow played Buggs type and jumped at Tyler Harris when he announced his transfer a year later.

We saw urgency earlier this year with Anderson and Leech transfers to immediately get higher level recruits of Bubar and Blackwell. I htink 2 years ago the staff would have tried to develop both and forgone the chance of adding new better players (lewis/Griffin). From that aspect the "rebuild/reload" change in the staff's roster management may have switch to a shorter term approach.
 

WhoISthis

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At what juncture do you deem misses "results"? It seems as though you are staking a claim that misses are immaterial. If there remains any overwhelming number of misses when do you move them to results?
Until there are limits on offers, guys signing elsewhere are not results. Guys going elsewhere is recruiting.

The point is that the only thing important is the numerator. Going 2/1000 doesn’t matter as long as he adds players that lead to wins. And given there is time left this offseason to add quality recruits to next year’s roster, now is certainly not “result” time. Really we won’t have results until the season is well underway. For example, many thought Leech and Zion were good recruits, but they weren’t results.
 

WhoISthis

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Very true. I will say that Nixon committed early in the transfer season with little fanfare. At least I was a bit underwhelmed and he played to my expectations. He performed at that level high effort but not a game changer and a bit stretched for as a B12 starter. He would have been a good fit as 6-7th man off the bench if THT, LW and Lard would have been on last years team, which the staff was projecting. Things change fast in P6.
The staff was projecting those three would be back? Doubtful, but if so, that’s not a great sign imo. All high flight risks.
 

LLCoolCY

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The staff was projecting those three would be back? Doubtful, but if so, that’s not a great sign imo. All high flight risks.

THT was expected to be a future pro but not 1 n done, most thought 3 years maybe 2. Him blowing up in Maui changed a lot of plans. Lard going into the year was a risk but if he stayed to the plan would have returned. LW was expected to go pro but after the injury there was some thought he'd come back because his draft stock was low. Nixon was the low ceiling replacement for LW.
 

rochclone

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Look, all i'm saying is that we assume because of their title they know what they are doing. Most coaches just got a break that other guys didn't, or hooked themselves up to the correct wagon when they were a 24 year old GA. Society loves to make Kings of Coaches and Owners or AD's. I will never understand why most fans always take the owner or coaches side in various contract disputes. The players are the ones doing the work, but yet we make statues of coaches.

Like Drs, and Financial Guys and various other institutions, just because they have the job doesn't mean they are an expert. Perhaps they are just winging it like the rest of us and taking it day by day. There really is nothing in Prohms resume that says he is an expert other than riding Billy Kennedys teams and taking over a decent program at ISU.

Just because a doctor has gone to school for nearly a decade do you think they really know more about the body then me? Yes. Yes they do.
 

Cloneon

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with 3 open scholarships and several holes in the roster, I'm sure we're "making a run" at EVERYONE. whether or not the interest in reciprocated? who knows.

and this upcoming transfer rule may put more kids on the market, but it doesn't make it more or less likely we land anyone.
With that logic, I'll bet you play the lottery. Like anything, if you play it enough you'll win, but chances are you'll be broke far before that.
 

jmb

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Until there are limits on offers, guys signing elsewhere are not results. Guys going elsewhere is recruiting.

The point is that the only thing important is the numerator. Going 2/1000 doesn’t matter as long as he adds players that lead to wins. And given there is time left this offseason to add quality recruits to next year’s roster, now is certainly not “result” time. Really we won’t have results until the season is well underway. For example, many thought Leech and Zion were good recruits, but they weren’t results.
-Leech and Zion categorically are results. Not positive results but results.
-Coach has undoubtedly had results. There is a growing body of evidence that the results aren't that good.
-He has had time to recruit. The results two out of the last three years are not terribly positive are a direct RESULT of his work recruiting.
-It seems as though you want to positive results.
-If you only are compelled to count positive results that is your call, yet you must concede he has had results.
-His results on the recruiting trail are showing on the court.
 

BallSoHard4Cy

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-Leech and Zion categorically are results. Not positive results but results.
-Coach has undoubtedly had results. There is a growing body of evidence that the results aren't that good.
-He has had time to recruit. The results two out of the last three years are not terribly positive are a direct RESULT of his work recruiting.
-It seems as though you want to positive results.
-If you only are compelled to count positive results that is your call, yet you must concede he has had results.
-His results on the recruiting trail are showing on the court.

2019 I'll give you, but the staff absolutely found talent in 2017 and 2018. The best players from those classes (w/ the exception of Lard) aren't here anymore because they were so talented. That shouldn't be a knock on Prohm.

You're not gonna go 4 for 4 in every class.
 
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Statefan10

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Okay so Jose Perez is making his decision today and we're one of his 5 finalists, however we aren't actively recruiting him per CW.. Does anyone have any information on why we are not recruiting him?
 

ForbinsAscynt

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Okay so Jose Perez is making his decision today and we're one of his 5 finalists, however we aren't actively recruiting him per CW.. Does anyone have any information on why we are not recruiting him?
Pretty easy to speculate. Staff evaluated him and did not think he was worth tying up a schollie for two years. Or better options are or will become available.
 

jmb

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2019 I'll give you, but the staff absolutely found talent in 2017 and 2018. The best players from those classes (w/ the exception of Lard) aren't here anymore because they were so talented. That shouldn't be a knock on Prohm.

You're not gonna go 4 for 4 in every class.
2016-2/4
2017-1/2
2018-2/4 with Conditt jury still out
2019-of the four hs recruits three gone. Tre is still developing. 0/3 w/one unknown. Transfers 1 win 1 unknown.

14 hs recruits. 8/14 for certain misses. The results could be worse than the 57+% miss rate ultimately could be worse. It is starting to look bleak on his recruiting success rates.
 

LLCoolCY

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Okay so Jose Perez is making his decision today and we're one of his 5 finalists, however we aren't actively recruiting him per CW.. Does anyone have any information on why we are not recruiting him?
Pretty easy to speculate. Staff evaluated him and did not think he was worth tying up a schollie for two years. Or better options are or will become available.

Lopez is a SG who has to sit out, next year ISU will have Bolton, Jackson, Walker, and Harris as combo guards who he'd likely be competing for time with already. Pure speculation ISU was initially recruiting Lopez until Harris became available and took the sit out guard spot they were looking for and never officially offered Lopez.
 
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awd4cy

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2019 I'll give you, but the staff absolutely found talent in 2017 and 2018. The best players from those classes (w/ the exception of Lard) aren't here anymore because they were so talented. That shouldn't be a knock on Prohm.

You're not gonna go 4 for 4 in every class.
You don't need to go 4 for 4, but there were so many busts. Also, Lard was always a bad apple, we knew that from the moment he was recruited, Wigginton should have never left, everyone knew but him he wasn't getting drafted, and Talen is looking like he might not stick in the league either.
 

ForbinsAscynt

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Lopez is a SG who has to sit out, next year ISU will have Bolton, Jackson, Walker, and Harris as combo guards who he'd likely be competing for time with already. Pure speculation ISU was initially recruiting Lopez until Harris became available and took the sit out guard spot they were looking for and never officially offered Lopez.
the only semi-hole in that theory is that Harris said in the CW interview that he is a point guard. I have no clue if the staff sees him as the man next year or not but he definitely does.
 

Cyclonepride

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A pineapple under the sea
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2016-2/4
2017-1/2
2018-2/4 with Conditt jury still out
2019-of the four hs recruits three gone. Tre is still developing. 0/3 w/one unknown. Transfers 1 win 1 unknown.

14 hs recruits. 8/14 for certain misses. The results could be worse than the 57+% miss rate ultimately could be worse. It is starting to look bleak on his recruiting success rates.

I'm guessing that most programs look very similar if you analyze it. After all, for 13 scholarships, you typically have 7-8 playing, and constant turnover year to year.
 

WhoISthis

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THT was expected to be a future pro but not 1 n done, most thought 3 years maybe 2. Him blowing up in Maui changed a lot of plans. Lard going into the year was a risk but if he stayed to the plan would have returned. LW was expected to go pro but after the injury there was some thought he'd come back because his draft stock was low. Nixon was the low ceiling replacement for LW.
The combined years was maybe one too low. Those three leaving early should have been built in to the recruiting.