Haaland: Diagnosing Defense

  • After Iowa State won the Big 12, a Cyclone made a wonderful offer to We Will that now increases our match. Now all gifts up to $400,000 between now and the Final 4 will be matched. Please consider giving at We Will Collective.
    This notice can be dismissed using the upper right corner X button.

cc1091

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2007
1,146
305
83
Minneapolis
Lookin' for better defense? Hire Larry Eustachy as an assistant.

Yeah, I know. It will never happen. And Eustachy wasn't much of a recruiter.
 

twojman

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2006
7,090
2,909
113
Clive
I'm curious if our emphasis on getting out on the break plays into the rebounding problem? If you have guys hedging down the court to take advantage of a defense that potentially wouldn't be set up yet, you'd have less guys rebounding, and less guys to defend after an offensive rebound.

Watching ISU on the offensive end, they don't send many guys to the offensive glass a whole lot. Occasionally you'll have a couple of guys but it does not seem to be a priority which is a huge mistake IMO. The thought process is to slow down opposing fast breaks but if you look at the Big 12 this year, it is 2nd to last of ALL conferences in terms of tempo.

What does that tempo stat mean? Value your possessions. Offensive rebounds are a must.
 

Cyclonepride

Thought Police
Staff member
Apr 11, 2006
96,589
57,454
113
53
A pineapple under the sea
www.oldschoolradical.com
Watching ISU on the offensive end, they don't send many guys to the offensive glass a whole lot. Occasionally you'll have a couple of guys but it does not seem to be a priority which is a huge mistake IMO. The thought process is to slow down opposing fast breaks but if you look at the Big 12 this year, it is 2nd to last of ALL conferences in terms of tempo.

What does that tempo stat mean? Value your possessions. Offensive rebounds are a must.

I don't know- wouldn't that be a less valuable tactic when you don't have good rebounders in general?
 

twojman

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2006
7,090
2,909
113
Clive
I don't know- wouldn't that be a less valuable tactic when you don't have good rebounders in general?

Maybe rebounding would go up if, you know, they actually tried it on the offensive end? (Not being snarky to you)
Offensive rebounding just does not seem to be a part of the game plan unless you get a guy or two who are just trying it. I mean, what ISU has done has not worked so maybe change it up especially since the makeup/tempo of the league has changed so much.
 

cycloneted

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2006
615
286
63
Des Moines
I still want Young to be a better rebounder. He has gotten better but is still a long way off from being as good as he can be.
I think Solo does a decent job, most of the time, boxing his guy out, but he definitely doesn't have a nose for the ball. He's been playing with a renewed defensive intensity lately, which has been nice to see.
 

Halincandenza

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2018
9,142
9,933
113
I think Solo does a decent job, most of the time, boxing his guy out, but he definitely doesn't have a nose for the ball. He's been playing with a renewed defensive intensity lately, which has been nice to see.

Yeah he gets his guy blocked out but often doesn't go after it.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
49,737
46,466
113
Eustachy's defenses at Iowa State per KenPom:

91, 22, 33, 185, 53.

Guess you just need the players.

Horton in an interview talked about how they weren't that good on defense his senior year...I didn't realize they were up there that far though.

How was Floyd in the 97-98 season? (gonna guess not good)
 

khaal53

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 13, 2006
2,848
525
113
40
Guess you just need the players.

Horton in an interview talked about how they weren't that good on defense his senior year...I didn't realize they were up there that far though.

How was Floyd in the 97-98 season? (gonna guess not good)

#17 in 1997 and #135 in 1998.
 
  • Like
Reactions: madguy30

heitclone

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jun 21, 2009
15,456
12,569
113
44
Way up there
For fun Prohm's teams according to Kenpom, the first 4 are Murray State, last 5 ISU:

defense: 20.161,182,173,91, 42,143,47,138
offense: 80,123, 107,16,7,11,81,9,45

Thinking about those ISU (idk enough about Murray to say) rosters, we didn't really have dominate defensive players or rebounders the higher rated years but we did have elite offensive players. IMO the trend is, when Prohm's teams are good offensively, they will be serviceable defensively. That's how he coaches and has had success. There is a chicken and egg debate about which number influenced the other but like I said, the rosters at ISU kind of tell the story. With the way Steve coaches, being able to set up on defense and not play in transition, where we really struggle this year, is a bigger deal than scoring in transition. The first half of the TCU game was a perfect example, the 2nd half was an example of how they struggle when they aren't making shots.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Statefan10

GrindingAway

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 27, 2006
5,104
2,881
113
I think Solo does a decent job, most of the time, boxing his guy out, but he definitely doesn't have a nose for the ball. He's been playing with a renewed defensive intensity lately, which has been nice to see.

I would agree. Despite people in the stands loving to yell "box out" when we can't get a board, great rebounding is more about going after the ball then boxing out. The exception can be if you have great rebounding guards then having your bigs be good at sealing can help, but outside of TH I don't think we have many that fit that category.

Solo has looked great on the defensive end the last couple of games, but I'm hoping he finds that next level on the defensive glass.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SolarGarlic

Pat

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2011
2,166
3,076
113
I would agree. Despite people in the stands loving to yell "box out" when we can't get a board, great rebounding is more about going after the ball then boxing out. The exception can be if you have great rebounding guards then having your bigs be good at sealing can help, but outside of TH I don't think we have many that fit that category.

Solo has looked great on the defensive end the last couple of games, but I'm hoping he finds that next level on the defensive glass.

I kind of disagree. The reason Vroman cleaned the glass so effectively at ISU was that Homan was clearing out the biggest threat. Now, yes, someone still needs to go get the ball, but I would love to see analytics about percentage of available rebounds ISU grabs when Solo is in vs. out. To my eyes, the team rebounds better when he is clearing space.
 

SolarGarlic

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,567
8,305
113
Maybe rebounding would go up if, you know, they actually tried it on the offensive end? (Not being snarky to you)
Offensive rebounding just does not seem to be a part of the game plan unless you get a guy or two who are just trying it. I mean, what ISU has done has not worked so maybe change it up especially since the makeup/tempo of the league has changed so much.

It's always a relief when I see our opponents not attack the offensive glass. I'm not sure we have the roster to do it this season. You need a lot of length and athleticism to rebound out of position and/or keep the ball alive.

SY and MJ aren't tall for their position or have great hops. MJ does a decent job getting position and picks up a lot of garbage points there, but he's the only one. Our guards are small and weak, so they don't help either.

The incoming class should help, and I would like to see us battle more for rebounds. We've been one of the worst teams in the country in giving up offensive rebounds for seemingly a decade.
 

SolarGarlic

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,567
8,305
113
I would agree. Despite people in the stands loving to yell "box out" when we can't get a board, great rebounding is more about going after the ball then boxing out. The exception can be if you have great rebounding guards then having your bigs be good at sealing can help, but outside of TH I don't think we have many that fit that category.

Solo has looked great on the defensive end the last couple of games, but I'm hoping he finds that next level on the defensive glass.

Agree. At this level, it's about checking a guy (the full box out is nice, but someone has to go get the ball), reading the ball in the air, anticipating the bounce off the rim, and then timing your jump. Ejim practically grabbed the ball the moment it bounced off the rim.
 

GrindingAway

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 27, 2006
5,104
2,881
113
I kind of disagree. The reason Vroman cleaned the glass so effectively at ISU was that Homan was clearing out the biggest threat. Now, yes, someone still needs to go get the ball, but I would love to see analytics about percentage of available rebounds ISU grabs when Solo is in vs. out. To my eyes, the team rebounds better when he is clearing space.

I think we are saying the same thing. Young just containing the others team's big can be an effective strategy if others (I said guards above, but could be a Vroman type) are going to be excellent rebounders. If you listen to about any great rebounder though they will say the box out is over emphasized (I'm not saying not important at all) and just going to get the ball is under emphasized.