This is why Prohm must go........

bthebutcher

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A part of me hopes that TH struggles enough against the elite teams to cause his stock to drop enough to where it is in his best interest to come back next season (and yes, that is really selfish of me) because with him back and guys like Bolton and Conditt hopefully stepping it up to the next level I think we could be competitive again, but this program needs to have more than 9 wins in early February when it's 5 years into the tenure of the coach.
You're not a true fan.
 

Sigmapolis

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I think if we are relying on those 3 (and Young), we will be a lower Big 12 team.
Our recruiting class plus spring signings have to push the returning players for starter minutes.

IMO 3 starters on next year's team need to come from new blood.

I think these guys have proven they are at least worth being in a Big 12 rotation --

Bolton
Young
Conditt

We have heard good things about Johnson. Jackson is coming along.

Call that 5/8 for your rotation.

So you need three more out of the spring recruiting market and the incoming recruiting class. That would hopefully fill things out for next season.

So, yeah, I think you definitely need two incoming guys as starters -- somebody as the 1-2 (depending on if you call Bolton a PG or not) and then somebody on the wing to go with Johnson, assuming you do not want to play two centers again.

Young and Conditt fight it out for the 5.
 

ISUChippewa

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What about it? They lost (pretty badly) with 3 "NBA" players in the first round to a .500 Big 10 team that won't make the tournament this year with all the same guys. Prohm was a bad hire. Deal with it.

Losing by 3 points is losing pretty badly?
 
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isucy86

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I think these guys have proven they are at least worth being in a Big 12 rotation --

Bolton
Young
Conditt

We have heard good things about Johnson. Jackson is coming along.

Call that 5/8 for your rotation.

So you need three more out of the spring recruiting market and the incoming recruiting class. That would hopefully fill things out for next season.

So, yeah, I think you definitely need two incoming guys as starters -- somebody as the 1-2 (depending on if you call Bolton a PG or not) and then somebody on the wing to go with Johnson, assuming you do not want to play two centers again.

Young and Conditt fight it out for the 5.

I would look at it a bit different.
  • Bolton has the best chance of starting next year. I think he is a 2 guard. This year he has turned the ball over too much to be PG. Plus the offense stalls a bit with the ball in his hands. Defense has to get a lot better.
  • Jackson has shown glimpses of being a nice PG. Solid ball handler, great defender. I think his shot will come, but as a soph I see him as a 4th/5rh option in offense.
  • Conditt. Hope he can be our starting center next year, but his Big12 play this year makes me wonder if he is just a solid backup.
  • Young. He is a backup.
  • Zion. Seeing potential. I think Prohm needs to make sure he is playing around 15mpg over the rest of the year. I don't see him as a post but tall wing who would fight Johnson for minutes in 20/21. Needs to live in the gym over the summer working on stroke.
I do want to see a 2 post starting lineup. IMO 2 posts are critical to being a good rebounding and defensive team. Foster or Conditt at one post. Then a JUCO or Grad Transfer athletic post. We need a tough, physical, rebounding machine who lives off garbage points. Think Baylor's Gillispie.
 

Sigmapolis

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I would look at it a bit different.
  • Bolton has the best chance of starting next year. I think he is a 2 guard. This year he has turned the ball over too much to be PG. Plus the offense stalls a bit with the ball in his hands. Defense has to get a lot better.
  • Jackson has shown glimpses of being a nice PG. Solid ball handler, great defender. I think his shot will come, but as a soph I see him as a 4th/5rh option in offense.
  • Conditt. Hope he can be our starting center next year, but his Big12 play this year makes me wonder if he is just a solid backup.
  • Young. He is a backup.
  • Zion. Seeing potential. I think Prohm needs to make sure he is playing around 15mpg over the rest of the year. I don't see him as a post but tall wing who would fight Johnson for minutes in 20/21. Needs to live in the gym over the summer working on stroke.
I do want to see a 2 post starting lineup. IMO 2 posts are critical to being a good rebounding and defensive team. Foster or Conditt at one post. Then a JUCO or Grad Transfer athletic post. We need a tough, physical, rebounding machine who lives off garbage points. Think Baylor's Gillispie.

Career ATR --

Bolton = 105/139
Jackson = 26/22

Neither is really very impressive in that department. They both might just inherently be off-guards. We either need a transfer PG for next year, or Prohm is going to have to work his magic in training up the next good/elite PG in his stable.

Do not underestimate Young. Him at his best is very good, even though I would agree with you that Conditt has the higher ceiling of the two of them as players.

There would be enough minutes to go around for Johnson and Griffin. Both are in that 6'6" to 6'7" range and long, which makes them super useful and switchtastic on defense. A good 3-4 guy or two like that is what we are missing now.

We tried starting two posts much of this year. It was a disaster.
 

Clonefan32

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I think Prohm was a victim of his initial roster. He had a talented group of upperclassman- so he was all in the first 2 years to maintain Fred Hoiberg's program.

In years 4/5 he is trying to create a new culture is finding out that is hard to do. Also losing is a bad habit, hard to break!

The recipe for a great program isn't hard to identify- it's been the same as long as I can remember:
  • Great on ball defense with shot blockers to protect the rim.
  • Great rebounding (off&def)
  • Players who can shoot. A lot of coaches and fans get memorized by great athletes. Great shooters is far more important.
  • Make more free throw a than the opponent attempts. This means pressuring the paint.
The icing is strong 3 point shooting. The are top 20 teams that shoot poorly from 3, but they do the other things well. Do the core items and shoot well from 3 and you have a top 10 program.

Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on the roster turnover early on, I still just don't see any of the hallmarks of a well coached team. That's my biggest thing. The offense is beyond stagnant and the defense is bad. It's the same story game after game.
 

SCyclone

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The one thing that irritates me about this team is the effort level. Don't get me wrong, they are trying, but it doesn't seem as if all the players are playing at a high level for the entire game, week in and week out.

If you look at a team like Ole Miss - I watched them play Auburn a week ago - you will see a group that maybe isn't really talented, but they work their butts off defensively. On every possession.

I sure wish the Cyclone coaching staff could coax that kind of effort out of these guys, because I think the talent is there.
 

larrysarmy

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The one thing that irritates me about this team is the effort level. Don't get me wrong, they are trying, but it doesn't seem as if all the players are playing at a high level for the entire game, week in and week out.

If you look at a team like Ole Miss - I watched them play Auburn a week ago - you will see a group that maybe isn't really talented, but they work their butts off defensively. On every possession.

I sure wish the Cyclone coaching staff could coax that kind of effort out of these guys, because I think the talent is there.

agree to a point, but Tyrese, Bolton are playing the whole game. They are our primary ball handlers and play makers and being asked to excel on D. At some point the grind gets you and unfortunately that can happen late in games...just no reliable depth to help spell them, you need them in all the time to just stay within striking distance.
 

IlliniCy

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agree to a point, but Tyrese, Bolton are playing the whole game. They are our primary ball handlers and play makers and being asked to excel on D. At some point the grind gets you and unfortunately that can happen late in games...just no reliable depth to help spell them, you need them in all the time to just stay within striking distance.
I disagree. 40 minutes isn't (or shouldn't be) a grind for 18-22 year-olds unless they aren't working hard enough in practice or in their conditioning. They get a MINIMUM of 23 minutes of rest during a game with media TO's and halftime.

And, if coach thinks they are getting worn down, they can back off them in practice a bit.
 

madguy30

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I disagree. 40 minutes isn't (or shouldn't be) a grind for 18-22 year-olds unless they aren't working hard enough in practice or in their conditioning. They get a MINIMUM of 23 minutes of rest during a game with media TO's and halftime.

And, if coach thinks they are getting worn down, they can back off them in practice a bit.

Wut?

40 minutes is a grind no matter how good of shape you're in.
 

larrysarmy

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Wut?

40 minutes is a grind no matter how good of shape you're in.

exactly. And when you compound any injuries and playing on the road...the margins are so incredibly thin. If we had a 3rd and 4th scoring option that is consistent and get their own shot, we’d be so much more balanced.

I thought Conditt could evolve to that this year...still could be... but it’s been non existent lately, but he’s a true Sophomore, not sure how much you can put on him. He needs a Garza like off season
 

ClonesFTW

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Wut?

40 minutes is a grind no matter how good of shape you're in.

Soccer players around the world are giggling at this statement.

I see no excuse for a 20 year old 175lb D1 guard to be gassed with halftime, media breaks, timeouts, and free throws. If you’re a 230+ pound center that’s different.
 

Cyclone951

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Will it mean anything who is in the rotation if Prohm is coaching?

I think these guys have proven they are at least worth being in a Big 12 rotation --

Bolton
Young
Conditt

We have heard good things about Johnson. Jackson is coming along.

Call that 5/8 for your rotation.

So you need three more out of the spring recruiting market and the incoming recruiting class. That would hopefully fill things out for next season.

So, yeah, I think you definitely need two incoming guys as starters -- somebody as the 1-2 (depending on if you call Bolton a PG or not) and then somebody on the wing to go with Johnson, assuming you do not want to play two centers again.

Young and Conditt fight it out for the 5.
 

SolarGarlic

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Soccer players around the world are giggling at this statement.

I see no excuse for a 20 year old 175lb D1 guard to be gassed with halftime, media breaks, timeouts, and free throws. If you’re a 230+ pound center that’s different.

Soccer players are in great shape, but they get plenty of breaks when the ball is in play. The majority of them are walking at any given moment.

Basketball at the power conference level is very physical and demanding. Playing 40 minutes might not be impossible, but playing at a high level for 40 minutes is extremely difficult. Skills like shooting and ball handling will diminish if you're playing tough defense and going to the boards on the other end.
 
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