Kobe Bryant is dead

[Clonefan32]

On the flipside, it's fair to view this as a 19 year old girl working at the front desk of a hotel for a few bucks an hour is maybe not going to get a real fair shake in a trial vs. a wildly wealthy and one of the most popular celebrities in the world. And maybe the thorough character assassination the high priced defense had executed to that point was a bit too much to deal with.

And I think therein lies the discrepancy about how people view the situation. I think reasonable minds can differ on what happened and your view of the situation likely mirrors your general perception of Kobe.

Personally, although I've spent the last 30 minutes defending Kobe, I think at a minimum you look at the way this young lady was treated, along with the very tentative "mea culpa", and regardless of what actually happened that night Kobe comes away looking very bad. It really did kind of usher in a new era of shaming a victim on largely irrelevant issues.

 

[CyDude16]

I don't think it's a stretch to expect them not to tell us or impressionable boys that love the NBA that Kobe is an example for us to follow on how to be great husbands and just leave it at that. No qualification, no mention of previous mistakes or evolution. Just, yeah, he's great and you should be like him.

Go read about the incident. When it happened, what all he said to police about this and other side action all just a few months after his wife gave birth to his daughter. Then you go tell your son(s) that Kobe is an example he should follow to learn how to be a great husband without any qualification or further explanation. Or go tell a guy your daughter is dating that he should use Kobe as a role model on how to be a great husband.

And people that want to hold him up for changing or learning from his mistakes as some accomplishment is really sad and speaks to some horribly low expectations. You'd have to be pretty worthless if a behavior that nearly destroys your life doesn't straighten you up.

Hard disagree with this, yikes.

 

[WooBadger18]

I am so sorry. <3

Thanks, and I really am fine. I just think think sharing that can help lend a different perspective.

Jesus christ. A weak moment (in my mind) is a lapse in judgment, but you learned from the mistake and made a change in life. I have friends that have DUI's but have never had one since, because they learned something from it. Would you argue that this person is a horrible person because they had a DUI and could have killed somebody on the roadway? I'm not condoning drinking and driving, but people do make mistakes and learn from them, and they are allowed to be respected.

Yeah, Kobe fought the charges. Was that right? No, but what would you do in that situation? I bet you would everything you can to A) fix the mistake with your family and B) whatever you could to prevent the amount of damage to your brand/image.

If the biggest mistake you've made in life was having sweets when you're on a diet or something, then you better have a parachute for how high up you are on that pedestal.

Surely you can recognize that there is a big difference and a lot of behaviors between “having sweets when you’re on a diet” and raping someone, right?

 

[jpete24]

Thanks, and I really am fine. I just think think sharing that can help lend a different perspective.


Surely you can recognize that there is a big difference and a lot of behaviors between “having sweets when you’re on a diet” and raping someone, right?

No doubt. But I was just making a point that everybody isn't perfect, and everybody makes mistakes regardless of the severity. It's how we respond to those mistakes and what we do that matters. The person I previously quoted said a "weak moment" as eating chocolate cake on a diet. I think they understood what I was previously trying to say....

Kobe wasn't perfect, but he did show that he learned from that massive mistake, and he proved over and over again.

 

[AuH2O]

Hard disagree with this, yikes.

Which is fine, but I'm curious with what opinion it is you disagree with so much? Is it that I don't think Kobe should be presented as an example of a great husband? Or is that I think it's a pretty low expectation that a person eliminates a bad behavior after getting caught doing it nearly ruins their life? Those are basically my two points distilled down to a sentence.

 

[Tornado man]

Yeah, Kobe fought the charges. Was that right? No, but what would you do in that situation? I bet you would everything you can to A) fix the mistake with your family and B) whatever you could to prevent the amount of damage to your brand/image.

If the biggest mistake you've made in life was having sweets when you're on a diet or something, then you better have a parachute for how high up you are on that pedestal.

Oh please. A "mistake" is taking the wrong exit off of I-235. You're calling rape a "mistake?" God help you .

 

[jpete24]

Oh please. A "mistake" is taking the wrong exit off of I-235. You're calling rape a "mistake?" God help you .

mistake
noun
Definition of mistake (Entry 2 of 2)

1: a wrong judgment : MISUNDERSTANDING
2: a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention


What is perfection like? Do your poops smell like Lilac and Gooseberries? Seriously, you're debating the English language about an all-time basketball great that people universally agree ~ made a mistake 15 years ago, and for the last 15 years made up for it by doing the right things over and over again. Meanwhile, his family is suffering from the loss of him and his daughter, and generally, you should see this and think "maybe I should appreciate life more, or my family more, or the fact that any second you could be gone".

Saying he made a mistake doesn't mean you condone what he did. Rape is bad, universally and unequivocally not something that can be debated. But did the man commit rape again? Did he leave his family behind and isolate himself? No.

 

[IASTATE07]

I'm not going to get into the Kobe stuff, but there is a difference between a mistake and a bad decision.

 

[jpete24]

I'm not going to get into the Kobe stuff, but there is a difference between a mistake and a bad decision.

A bad decision is a wrong judgment, which is a mistake.

Why is this even being debated?

 

[IASTATE07]

A bad decision is a wrong judgment, which is a mistake.

Why is this even being debated?

C'mon now. You're going to put cheating on your spouse in the same category as getting off at the wrong exit on the interstate?

 

[Clonefan32]

C'mon now. You're going to put cheating on your spouse in the same category as getting off at the wrong exit on the interstate?

I'm by no means condoning cheating, but if you hold infidelity heavily against someone I would strongly suggest looking outside of sports, music, film and any form of entertainment for role models.

 

[CloneGuy8]

Since its being discussed, this is just kind of a refresher on what happened with the rape case.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-01-26/what-happened-kobe-bryant-sexual-assault-case

 

[WooBadger18]

mistake
noun
Definition of mistake (Entry 2 of 2)

1: a wrong judgment : MISUNDERSTANDING
2: a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention


What is perfection like? Do your poops smell like Lilac and Gooseberries? Seriously, you're debating the English language about an all-time basketball great that people universally agree ~ made a mistake 15 years ago, and for the last 15 years made up for it by doing the right things over and over again. Meanwhile, his family is suffering from the loss of him and his daughter, and generally, you should see this and think "maybe I should appreciate life more, or my family more, or the fact that any second you could be gone".

Saying he made a mistake doesn't mean you condone what he did. Rape is bad, universally and unequivocally not something that can be debated. But did the man commit rape again? Did he leave his family behind and isolate himself? No.

Well this is certainly a take. Not a good one, but a take

 

[fsanford]

The reason that some people are saying, "Right, he was a great basketball player, but..." are because his victim is out there watching all of this, and on what do you think she's focusing? (And before people say "alleged victim," remember that he said, "I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way [consensually]," thereby admitting it was rape before settling a civil suit - because one person consenting does not make it consensual.) Just a year and a half ago she was still having the NDA forced upon her, rather than being able to tell her story and find healing. So now you have people like Royce White (who is a joke at this point, looking for attention) going off on Twitter talking about how she was just making fake accusations, money-grubbing after a basketball star - and she can't even defend herself. That re-victimizes her again. Not a lot of people are going to be able to understand that, which is why the ones who do are trying to say, "Yes, let's honor what he did on the court, but maybe slow down the deification."

Kobe's public apology was far, far better than any we've seen come from the "Me Too" movement - it's honestly remarkable. He's, for presumably many reasons, attempted to shape up his life in many ways. But it's not hard to understand why some people are a touch hesitant to participate in the 24/7 mainstream and social media blast about it. Especially people who have been victimized/affected by violent and/or sexual crimes themselves.

You make some valid points
No one event good or bad should frame a person's life. But there is a time when both need to be discussed.

Angie you always seem to present level headed comments

 

[Tornado man]

mistake
noun
Definition of mistake (Entry 2 of 2)

1: a wrong judgment : MISUNDERSTANDING
2: a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention


What is perfection like? Do your poops smell like Lilac and Gooseberries? Seriously, you're debating the English language about an all-time basketball great that people universally agree ~ made a mistake 15 years ago, and for the last 15 years made up for it by doing the right things over and over again. Meanwhile, his family is suffering from the loss of him and his daughter, and generally, you should see this and think "maybe I should appreciate life more, or my family more, or the fact that any second you could be gone".

Saying he made a mistake doesn't mean you condone what he did. Rape is bad, universally and unequivocally not something that can be debated. But did the man commit rape again? Did he leave his family behind and isolate himself? No.

What BS - now you're calling what he did in Colorado a "misunderstanding?" Get real man.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I will wade into this real quick and then I’m done. Like I said I wasn’t old enough for the incident to remember.

I think the issue is that people like Shaq or Kimmel aren’t saying he was perfect. They aren’t saying what he did was ok. Kobe seemed to redeem himself from whatever happened. He made up for it by being charitable. He made up for it by becoming a great father. He made up for it by being a great ambassador for basketball. Kobe in 2020 by all means was a great person.

I also don’t think it’s productive to argue about the definition of mistake. Some people may put a degree on the word mistake so that they don’t think certain things past a certain level can just be deemed a mistake. Others might think mistake doesn’t suggest a degree of how bad it was.

 

[IASTATE07]

I'm by no means condoning cheating, but if you hold infidelity heavily against someone I would strongly suggest looking outside of sports, music, film and any form of entertainment for role models.

What I said had zero to do with Kobe or celebrities.

 

[clonebb]

Can’t wait until the news stops talking about him.

 

[VeloClone]

When driving daughter home from soccer last night and she told me that she just read on her phone that they recovered all of the bodies and Kobe had his arms around his daughter trying to protect her I got all choked up.

And I'm not a Kobe fan, but I am a father.

 

[clonebb]

When driving daughter home from soccer last night and she told me that she just read on her phone that they recovered all of the bodies and Kobe had his arms around his daughter trying to protect her I got all choked up.

And I'm not a Kobe fan, but I am a father.

did you tell her he also had his arms around a 19 year old while married?