Yes, clearly the outpouring of emotion is indicative of a guy no one liked.
Kobe Bryant is dead
- Thread starter CycloneDaddy
- Start date
You are correct, I could have worded that better. There are many very smart/sharp/inquisitive people who don't go to or graduate from college, and surprisingly many college grads who are really dull. I agree it was Kobe's upbringing that made him the "sharp" guy he was. I don't know anything about Earnhardt's background so cant comment there.
Yep the guy is dead because he was selfish. He bought that stupid helicopter because he wanted to be able drop his daughters off at school in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon. And attend school events. So he knew he had to fly back and forth to El Segundo to make that happen
He did not want to live in apartment near the practice facility. He did not want to uproot the family to Manhattan Beach.
I live in LA and I know how incredibly difficult it can be to get from work to school activities.
Made bad decisions but by all accounts his last, 10 years or so he stepped up and showed in many ways that he was a pretty great guy.
It's sad he will not have an opportunity to continue to
prove you wrong
Must be the same people that hated Carson King for poor behaviors in the past. People grow up, Kobe appears to have been one of those people. If we judged everyone for their past, we'd all be viewed as terrible people.
Agreed. Everyone has things they say or do in their past they regret. If you judge everyone in their weakest moments in their life, then you are not a very understanding or compassionate person.
I would argue that some of the greatest athletes are as egotistic and played with as much or more swagger than Kobe. Think about Jordan and Labron? They probably had more incidents than Kobe. It's the nature of becoming that great.
- Mar 27, 2006
- 41,079
- 29,228
- 113
I don't necessarily agree with the folks saying he is not a good guy, but your comparison is kind of ridiculous. There's an ocean of difference between Carson King's past tweets and Kobe's Colorado incident.
Poor jokes said as a youth shouldn't dog you for your whole life.
Sexual Assault?... It's in a completely different league.
I wasn't a fan of his; the Colorado incident and his concepts of what constitute leadership and being a good teammate never agreed with me (basically, I thought he was a massive a-hole and kind of selfish during his playing days).
But by all accounts he was a devoted family man, and the outpouring of emotion from the basketball world the last couple days should count for plenty. People are complicated; Kobe was probably no different. I don't think he was any kind of saint but it's obvious that he meant a lot to a lot of people, and that should be respected.
Worship in here or worship at large...
I don't really see a lot of worship here. But he was a giant of the NBA even if he was a sh*tty teammate. Any jersey retirements or game stoppages in his name seem warranted. And if they want to take time out to blather about him at the Grammy's, that seems fair. It took place at the Staples Center which is "the house that Kobe built" (a fair statement, imo). He was going to be a first ballot HOFer and if not on the NBA Mt. Rushmore probably first or second guy off of it.
The shock of the nature of his death and his young age shouldn't make any "worship" of him "amazing". In what small sampling of media reports on him I've seen it's been a pretty measured discussion of his on court accomplishments, "complicated" past*, and current status as a women's basketball advocate and father to a talented daughter. He seemed to be a good dude (even if formerly not one) doing good stuff.
* I do bristle at the term "complicated past". He was a public figure so if he was accused of rape and it went to trial it's fair to simply say so.
well I hated Jordan too. But to be fair my hatred of both had to do with the bulls and the lakers.
I'm not big on praising people for being so competitive that they'll resort to that level of violence. That's not admirable behavior and shouldn't be lauded. It is possible to be hypercompetitive without treating other people like ****.
I guess I don't see Kobe's issue in Colorado as being lumped into the category of "we all make mistakes, and he learned from his and is better for it."
Considering he was on trial for rape, nearly tore apart his family (daughter of a few months old at the time), had to settle a civil suit, lost massive endorsements and suffered terrible humiliation. Honestly, if that doesn't scare somebody straight, they are a sociopath.
The only thing that bugs me is that it seems like every celebrity acquaintance and friend that's all over the media seems hell bent on banging the drum of Kobe was first and foremost a great husband and father.
I think that’s a fair take. I will point out that the charges were dropped but probably shouldn’t have been. I don’t think they would have today. And that’s probably good.
I do think it’s possible that he was a good father in the 15 years after. None of us know. But he sure seemed like someone who loved his kids and I don’t think the “girl dad” story from a random reporter was just fake and then held on to for years.
That's quite a perversion of the term "weakest moments."
Let's recall: Kobe first denied up and down that "anything" happened, oh until he found out there was that pesky semen and blood evidence. Then he had his lawyers trash her reputation until she was scared to testify, and she dropped the rape charges. Then he says "he could understand how she would view it as non-consensual" in her civil suit settlement. Well then...
To me, a "weak moment" is when you have the chocolate cake when you shouldn't...
- Mar 27, 2006
- 41,079
- 29,228
- 113
Well said. Does that mean that he's irredeemable? Not necessarily. But it's still part of his story. It can still be true right along side of all of the good things that he did.
Human beings are ******* complicated, man. You can rarely just distill someone down to Good or Bad.
Maybe someone whose older can clarify. People talk about the Colorado incident was an open and **** case that he clearly raped her. I wasn’t old enough to really be aware of it but I’ve always been under the understanding that there was at least something to the argument of it being a misunderstanding.
At the end of the day I wasn’t ever a big fan of his when he played but I always respected the hell out of him. The last few years we’ve seen more and more stories like the tweet that was linked.
At the end of the day I wasn’t ever a big fan of his when he played but I always respected the hell out of him. The last few years we’ve seen more and more stories like the tweet that was linked.
TLDR version: I wonder if the pilot had vertigo after having to hold for Special VFR clearance?
Long winded version:
Many years ago I lived in Houston and had my PPL. One Sat afternoon 3 friends & I flew down to Galveston to fly along the beach and did some zero g pushovers and 2g turns. As is fairly normal there was a layer of crud and as we were flying back to La Porte airport the crud blended in with the water so that my flight horizon was a little hazy. My buddy in the right seat was an instructor and he noticed we were in a slight turn. I thought it was because we were all busy talking. After the 2nd time he told me he thought I had vertigo and I put it back to what I thought was straight and level which ended up being a slight turn. Very weird feeling and for us no big deal because we had lots of room but it was an important lesson.
The video you shared shows that they had to do figure 8s while holding for the Special VFR clearance. I’ve never flown a helicopter so maybe the banking on those turns wasn’t too steep, but it would not surprise me that those turns combined with the fog led to some vertigo for the pilot that he didn’t recognize and became a problem as his visibility was decreasing while he was climbing.
I haven’t flown in years and know there are pilots on here with way more hours. I would be curious if you think that is plausible?
Yeah I suspect he got vertigo. He was apparently pretty qualified for instrument flight but I hear that flying a helicopter on instruments at low speeds is pretty difficult. No expert though. Yeah hard to trust your instruments when your head is telling you something totally different.
