NFL: Eli Manning Retires

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jbindm

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Agreed. Like you said, Rivers, Stafford and Ryan will likely have similar debates when their time comes. Increased focus on passing plus QB longevity are skewing numbers to make it more challenging.

Agreed. I think voters are going to have to start parsing out the career stats to separate the impact guys from the compilers. Don't get me wrong; longevity and durability should matter to some extent. But guys like Stafford and Ryan and Rivers shouldn't be rewarded for piling up stats on mostly bad or middling teams.
 

heitclone

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one thing to think about was who Eli had around him, Plaxico was pretty good, OBJ and Barkley came a little late in his career but other than that...woof. No WR or running backs that stand out.
 

clonehenge

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For reference, here are the 26 modern day QBs in the HOF. Eli is a 2 time Super Bowl MVP. He deserves to be in. He's on par with Bob Griese. And if Len Freaking Dawson is in there then c'mon...

Edit: Eli is also 7th all time in pass yds, 7th all time in pass completions, and 7th all time in pass TDs. No brainer HOF.

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Brett Favre 1991-2010
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Ken Stabler 1970-1984
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Kurt Warner 1998-2009
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999
 
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jbindm

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one thing to think about was who Eli had around him, Plaxico was pretty good, OBJ and Barkley came a little late in his career but other than that...woof. No WR or running backs that stand out.

I think by the time OBJ and Barkley came along Eli was already cooked. The Giants hung on to him too long. They should have moved on several years ago.
 

VeloClone

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one thing to think about was who Eli had around him, Plaxico was pretty good, OBJ and Barkley came a little late in his career but other than that...woof. No WR or running backs that stand out.
Well he did have a pro bowl running back his first 3 years in NY - Tiki Barber. Having that security blanket can really help a young QB get settled in to the pro game.
 

Dandy

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He will go into the Hall of fame, but he doesn’t belong. He played in a big market, was part of a big football family, and had outstanding defenses and extreme luck (helmet catch). The last few years people have been calling for him to retire even though he is the same QB he’s always been. His stats prove it. The difference now is he doesn’t have an outstanding defense to carry the team and he’s been exposed.
If those are your parameters are you going to leave Tom Brady out? Dude is ALWAYS surrounded by an insane Belichick defense and lucky crap like Atlanta pooping the bed, the tuck rule, Adam V's kicks, Edelman's catch a couple years ago, Dee Ford lining up offsides, PETE CARROLL THROWING AT THE 1.
 

jbindm

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Well he did have a pro bowl running back his first 3 years in NY - Tiki Barber. Having that security blanket can really help a young QB get settled in to the pro game.

Here's a question: will anyone hold it against him for refusing to play for the Chargers? I could see some old establishment types bringing that up.
 

Angie

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Here's a question: will anyone hold it against him for refusing to play for the Chargers? I could see some old establishment types bringing that up.

Am I the only one who has hated him since that draft?
 
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Isualum13

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Pat McAfee gave his two cents.
 
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Cyinthenorth

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28540028/eli-manning-retires-16-nfl-seasons

Hall of Famer?

The case for: Two time Super Bowl winner and MVP, author of arguably the most iconic play in SB history, seventh all time in passing yards and TDs. The only other HOF eligible quarterback who has won two Super Bowls and not made it is Jim Plunkett.

Case against: 117-117 regular season record as a starting QB. Led the NFL in interceptions three(!) times. Finished in passer rating top ten once.

I think he'll get in, just maybe not on his first year of eligibility. But who knows? That last name carries a lot of weight, and maybe that puts him in right away once he's eligible. Should be an interesting debate for the voters.
Eli has got to be in the top 5 of worst QBs to win a Superbowl, let alone 2
 

pulse

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Am I the only one who has hated him since that draft?

Same. Not a fan of him since then. Can’t say much about the fam either since then either. Peyton’s aw shucks shtick is tired too.
 
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Cyinthenorth

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Agreed. Like you said, Rivers, Stafford and Ryan will likely have similar debates when their time comes. Increased focus on passing plus QB longevity are skewing numbers to make it more challenging.
I don't think any of the 3 make it, but Stafford isn't even worth mentioned IMO. He has made the playoffs what, three times in 11 seasons? And zero wins...
 

CycloneErik

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Eli is a real outlier.....he managed to win two Super Bowls (and 2 Super Bowl MVPs), and yet his career is littered with disappointments and (arguably) substandard play. I'd argue that the top 10 QB categories are littered with present day players, owing to the longer season and heavier reliance on the passing game.

My opinion? I don't see him as a Hall of Famer. But he'll always be able to one-up his older brother.

The Jim Plunkett comparisons make a lot of sense to me. Same .500 record, 2 Super Bowl wins.
Eli has the last name, so that might do it. Otherwise, I'd think not.
 

Cyinthenorth

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one thing to think about was who Eli had around him, Plaxico was pretty good, OBJ and Barkley came a little late in his career but other than that...woof. No WR or running backs that stand out.
Amani Toomer, Hakeem Nicks, and Victor Cruz were all stud WRs at various points in Eli's career
 
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Bigman38

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Yeah. Sometimes it's more about the story than the numbers. In the end those two SB wins plus the fact that he's a Manning ought to be enough to put him over the top.

I've always wondered how he's thought of if he wasn't a Manning, I think it was a negative for most of his career. He largely overlapped and was compared with his brother who will go down as one of the best ever. From my POV it always felt like the NY media and fans never came to grips with how he wasn't as good as his brother.

His standings in overall QB stats surprise me, even with his long career. I think he gets in on his playoff accomplishments, it gets a lot tighter if he only won one Super Bowl.
 

Sigmapolis

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Am I the only one who has hated him since that draft?

Do you hate John Elway for refusing to play for the Baltimore Colts?

Players doing everything in their power to avoid playing for a toxic franchise is fair game, as far as I am concerned. Elway and Manning have that right.
 

SCyclone

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The Jim Plunkett comparisons make a lot of sense to me. Same .500 record, 2 Super Bowl wins.
Eli has the last name, so that might do it. Otherwise, I'd think not.

Great comparison. Plunkett had such high expectations coming out of college - Heisman winner, first overall selection, etc - and they weren't realized until later in his career.

I still remember the circus around Eli's selection in the draft. Who's that important that they can direct where they go?
 

VeloClone

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Pat McAfee gave his two cents.

I think I got all of the QBs he kept listing. Here they all are sorted by winning percentage:

Staubach -11 years .746
Bradshaw - 14 years .677
Stabler - 15 years .662
Young - 15 years .657
Kelly - 11 years .631
Griese - 14 years .622
Warner - 12 years .578
Aikman -12 years .570
Fouts - 15 years .506
Moon - 17 years .502
Manning - 16 years .500
Namath - 13 years .496