MLB Suspends Astro Mgr & GM For Cheating.

[CyBobby]

The Red Sox are next, and MLB will deal with Cora then, I would bet, Boston will let him go before that happens.
Boston takes the PR hit before the charges are actually laid out, gives them time to find another manager for spring training starts.

Cora, and the two from Houston will never work in MLB again.

I hope you are right .... Once you lose the integrity or outright honesty of the game, you are in big trouble.....Everyone who disagrees with the Commish on this punishment, needs to see the movie Eight Men Out, re the 1919 Black Sox scandal when the white sox rigged the World Series....Guys like Shoeless Joe Jackson NEVER PLAYED another MLB game in their lives.....

 

[SouthJerseyCy]

During the 2017 playoffs the Astros averaged 5.7 runs per game. On the road, 3.0 runs per game.

Altuve batted .472 at home and .143 on the road.

Correra batted .371 at home and .211 on the road.

Small sample size. Teams get hot. Overall, Houston played worse at home than on the road during the 2017 season.

 

[Clonefan32]

To me the line is simple. If there is someone on second and they are stealing signs it become incumbent on the pitcher and catcher to mask the signs to avoid that. This is a known quantity-- you know there is someone on second, and you know he is probably capable of stealing the sign and relaying it to the batter.

Using a camera in center field, you don't know the risk of sign stealing. And it's every pitch. You can't possibly change the signs enough to avoid it.

Very clear that one is gamesmanship and one is overt cheating.

 

[thatguy]

the speculation that the Astros were using wearable tech to cheat is fascinating. Its why Altuve was screaming "don't rip my jersey" as he rounded third after hitting the walk off in Game 6.

 

[Doc]

This comes from Clint Scoles at Royals Academy, but it's essentially what I was telling a coworker yesterday.

One side of this I forgot or didn’t think that largely about was what this stuff does to pitchers. Of course, it can hurt players in arbitration with their numbers and penalize players on the fringes of being in the league but it also can hurt the top-end guys too. It was brought to my attention how long Yu Darvish spent trying to find his mistakes following the playoff loss to the Astros when he thought and was told that he was tipping his pitches. The beating he took in that series cost him money, training hours trying to fix problems that didn’t exist and the mental strain of looking for that non-existent problem. It’s got to be incredibly frustrating for Darvish knowing how much time and money he may have lost following that series.

 

[ianoconnor]

the speculation that the Astros were using wearable tech to cheat is fascinating. Its why Altuve was screaming "don't rip my jersey" as he rounded third after hitting the walk off in Game 6.

If the wearable tech thing is true.... those guys should get massive suspensions. Way worse than Pete Rose.

 

[BigJCy]

the speculation that the Astros were using wearable tech to cheat is fascinating. Its why Altuve was screaming "don't rip my jersey" as he rounded third after hitting the walk off in Game 6.

 

[Clonefan32]

The whole photo of Josh Reddick actually wearing a wire after the World Series thing would seem to support that.

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/new-allegations-astros-players-buzzers-inside-jerseys/533588

 

[srjclone]

This is a whole can of worms, jfc

 

[BoxsterCy]

To me the line is simple. If there is someone on second and they are stealing signs it become incumbent on the pitcher and catcher to mask the signs to avoid that. This is a known quantity-- you know there is someone on second, and you know he is probably capable of stealing the sign and relaying it to the batter.

Using a camera in center field, you don't know the risk of sign stealing. And it's every pitch. You can't possibly change the signs enough to avoid it.

Very clear that one is gamesmanship and one is overt cheating.

It isn't even a subjective thing. Your first paragraph is fine and within the rules, The tech stuff in your 2nd paragraph is against the rules, not the crazy "unwritten rule ****", the actual written down on ink rules.

 

[BoxsterCy]

As a guy whose team got beat a few times by the Astros this really sucks. Altuve was one of those opponents I had a lot of respect for. Same for Cora managing the Red Sox. Now, not so much. Sad stuff.

 

[Doc]

I've been thinking of something similar where the picture and catcher have ear pieces for a coach to call in the pitch. Like the NFL has for calling in plays.

this is completely wrong.

 

[fsanford]

Jessica Mendoza, is way off base on this . Pretty freaking stupid and she got destroyed on twitter as she should have

 

[stormchaser2014]

Beltran and the Mets have parted ways now.

 

[isufbcurt]

this is completely wrong.

Why? Baseball can't embrace technology?

 

[BigJCy]

 

[ISU_Clone_28]

As a guy whose team got beat a few times by the Astros this really sucks. Altuve was one of those opponents I had a lot of respect for. Same for Cora managing the Red Sox. Now, not so much. Sad stuff.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...stros-used-wearable-devices-aid-sign-stealing

MLB saying they looked into the wearable devices and are saying there was no evidence to support the claim. So hard to say what further will come out of this whole situation with the Astros. Supposedly other teams to be investigated after the Red Sox but if and when is anyones guess.

But to play devils advocate on your comment isn't it rather hypocritical for a Yankees fan to stand on the soap box on this whole thing condemning the Astros for cheating? In terms of looking at it from a violation of rules standpoint both Astros and Yankees were found to be cheating in the 2017 season along with the Red Sox. Not saying one is like the other as they were rather different ways that they cheated but both were found to be in violation of rules. Not to mention the Yankees past of winning championships and then later found out to have had multiple players on the roster in violation of taking steroids/banned substances. People will have different opinions on the whole which is worse, which is fine, but its not like the Yankees have had a squeaky clean past themselves.

 

[ISU_Clone_28]

I just think this is way too soft of punishment. If you really think of the careers this effected. You've got guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa, etc. These guys have become absolute superstars, but how much can be attributed to them having the advantage of knowing what pitch is coming?

Or you look at a guy like Darvish, who was absolutely destroyed for his performance in the World Series. Again, how much of that can be attributed to cheating? I know he wound up just fine with his Cubs contract, but that had to be hard.

I just think this cheating goes so deep that these punishments can't be enough.

I agree to a point but don't forget that the Astros saw Yu Darvish quite a bit before even facing him in the world series from his time playing with the Rangers. They were hitting him when they played him at the beginning of the 2017 season when he was pitching for the Rangers so they were already familiar with his pitches going into the world series when he was with the Dodgers. Houston beat Darvish twice in the series, once in Houston and once in LA. Could the cheating have helped them out in Houston, most definitely. But they also roughed him up pretty good in LA in game 7 to win it so unless the report is saying Houston set up cameras in visiting stadiums center field I'm not sure how Darvish can blame both of his performances on the Astros getting an advantage by cheating.

 

[BoxsterCy]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...stros-used-wearable-devices-aid-sign-stealing

MLB saying they looked into the wearable devices and are saying there was no evidence to support the claim. So hard to say what further will come out of this whole situation with the Astros. Supposedly other teams to be investigated after the Red Sox but if and when is anyones guess.

But to play devils advocate on your comment isn't it rather hypocritical for a Yankees fan to stand on the soap box on this whole thing condemning the Astros for cheating? In terms of looking at it from a violation of rules standpoint both Astros and Yankees were found to be cheating in the 2017 season along with the Red Sox. Not saying one is like the other as they were rather different ways that they cheated but both were found to be in violation of rules. Not to mention the Yankees past of winning championships and then later found out to have had multiple players on the roster in violation of taking steroids/banned substances. People will have different opinions on the whole which is worse, which is fine, but its not like the Yankees have had a squeaky clean past themselves.

I am not being a hypocrite and your not sounding like a "devils advocate". This sounds like you just hate the Yankees and want to spout off and because I am a Yankee fan I am not supposed to have an opinion. Sort of the "whataboutism" that dominates political discourse. I find all of the cheating sad. It doesn't get much more disappointing than A-Rod and that whole generation of cheaters. I'll never fully be able to warm up to these guys again although I am not really angry at them, they just make me sad. Currently disappointed as hell with young Yankee Domingo Germán, not for cheating but his domestic troubles (whatever level, no ones talking).

Hell, I didn't even like it watching a game where Jeter made out to be hit by a pitch and it clearly missed him. That's isn't even technically against any rule but still cheating. Ball Four should have taught me years ago not to get to enamored with any sporting figures but still get to admiring some players as more than just players only to get disappointed. As a little boy, Mantle, drunk and sad guy. Kirby Puckett, my local fav from the '80 - '90's, bathroom sexual assault at Red Stone. At least Reggie Jackson was "only" just kind of an *******. I have an autographed picture from Goose Gossage but wish the bitter old ******* would just shut the **** up these days. I can just hope some of my current favs like Torres and Judge don't turn out to be as personally flawed as past favs became. And I am talking about opponent favs to.

 

[ISU_Clone_28]

I am not being a hypocrite and your not sounding like a "devils advocate". This sounds like you just hate the Yankees and want to spout off and because I am a Yankee fan I am not supposed to have an opinion. Sort of the "whataboutism" that dominates political discourse. I find all of the cheating sad. It doesn't get much more disappointing than A-Rod and that whole generation of cheaters. I'll never fully be able to warm up to these guys again although I am not really angry at them, they just make me sad. Currently disappointed as hell with young Yankee Domingo Germán, not for cheating but his domestic troubles (whatever level, no ones talking).

Hell, I didn't even like it watching a game where Jeter made out to be hit by a pitch and it clearly missed him. That's isn't even technically against any rule but still cheating. Ball Four should have taught me years ago not to get to enamored with any sporting figures but still get to admiring some players as more than just players only to get disappointed. As a little boy, Mantle, drunk and sad guy. Kirby Puckett, my local fav from the '80 - '90's, bathroom sexual assault at Red Stone. At least Reggie Jackson was "only" just kind of an *******. I have an autographed picture from Goose Gossage but wish the bitter old ******* would just shut the **** up these days. I can just hope some of my current favs like Torres and Judge don't turn out to be as personally flawed as past favs became. And I am talking about opponent favs to.

Very fair assessment and you most certainly are capable of having an opinion. Never said you couldn't. I don't think anyone would disagree that lines were crossed and that punishment was warranted. People will have different opinions on what level of punishment is/was deserved and they are entitled to those opinions as well. I have a lot of respect for the Yankees in terms of the talent they have on the roster and what they are capable of achieving on the field. I won't hide the fact that I don't care for the arrogance that comes from a large portion of the Yankees fanbase and I despised it from the increasing number of Astros fans I came across as they continued to have success. All I'm trying to say is when you see the Max Kellerman's and the Stephen A Smith's of the Yankees fanbase come out and bash the Astros and act like the Yankees are above these kinds of things just comes off like the pot calling the kettle black and its rather laughable given the fact that the Yankees have had more than their fare share of cheating incidents.