MLB Suspends Astro Mgr & GM For Cheating.
- Thread starter Go2Guy
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I'm sorry honey. It was only 1 time. I'll never see her again. She didn't mean anything to me. OMG ... The clear lack of ethics from some of you. How do you live with yourself? And, how could you take any pride in winning anything if you know you cheated? It's like bringing a gun to a fist fight. No satisfaction should be taken.
More evidence that baseball needs to eliminate its "unwritten rules." Baseball has so many stupid traditions.
Steal signs by looking at a guy from second base? Ok-ish. Steal signs using cameras? Not Ok.
As someone who never played baseball beyond little league, what I don't understand is why there are "signs" in the first place. Why does a catcher need to signal to the pitcher which pitch they should throw? Can't the pitcher just decide for himself? If not, can't the catcher use a different system for signs that's not extremely easily "stealable"? Maybe a little clicker that goes to an earpiece in the pitcher's ear. Two clicks for a fastball, one for a changeup, etc. This is the major leagues, they pay the pitchers $10K+ per pitch. With the money they have available it would be easy to make a device that could send an unstealable signal to the pitcher if you absolutely have to send a signal.
If you ask me, stealing signs shouldn't be cheating. The catcher is openly showing the sign. If you can figure out what it means, that's his problem. Do a better job of hiding it or mixing it up. Look at what every college football team does to send plays in with those boards. They make it hard to figure out what the actual signal is because they are showing it in the open. If this was baseball, they would write down the play in detail on the big card and then demand the other team not look at it. Then, they would kick each player in the family jewels if they did and expect no punishment.
Steal signs by looking at a guy from second base? Ok-ish. Steal signs using cameras? Not Ok.
As someone who never played baseball beyond little league, what I don't understand is why there are "signs" in the first place. Why does a catcher need to signal to the pitcher which pitch they should throw? Can't the pitcher just decide for himself? If not, can't the catcher use a different system for signs that's not extremely easily "stealable"? Maybe a little clicker that goes to an earpiece in the pitcher's ear. Two clicks for a fastball, one for a changeup, etc. This is the major leagues, they pay the pitchers $10K+ per pitch. With the money they have available it would be easy to make a device that could send an unstealable signal to the pitcher if you absolutely have to send a signal.
If you ask me, stealing signs shouldn't be cheating. The catcher is openly showing the sign. If you can figure out what it means, that's his problem. Do a better job of hiding it or mixing it up. Look at what every college football team does to send plays in with those boards. They make it hard to figure out what the actual signal is because they are showing it in the open. If this was baseball, they would write down the play in detail on the big card and then demand the other team not look at it. Then, they would kick each player in the family jewels if they did and expect no punishment.
When teams feel like there's a chance of signs up being stolen, like with a runner on second, the catcher will change the signs or at least pretend to. The problem is if they're being stolen in ways not anticipated by the catcher.
There is a pretty large difference between catching a 95 mph heater and a 75 mph curve. Have fun taking a fastball to the beak if you think your pitcher is throwing a curve
I just think this is way too soft of punishment. If you really think of the careers this effected. You've got guys like Altuve, Bregman, Correa, etc. These guys have become absolute superstars, but how much can be attributed to them having the advantage of knowing what pitch is coming?
Or you look at a guy like Darvish, who was absolutely destroyed for his performance in the World Series. Again, how much of that can be attributed to cheating? I know he wound up just fine with his Cubs contract, but that had to be hard.
I just think this cheating goes so deep that these punishments can't be enough.
Or you look at a guy like Darvish, who was absolutely destroyed for his performance in the World Series. Again, how much of that can be attributed to cheating? I know he wound up just fine with his Cubs contract, but that had to be hard.
I just think this cheating goes so deep that these punishments can't be enough.
That's fair enough - that's a logical reason to have communication. But if that's the case - why does it have to be the catcher signalling the pitcher? If the reason for signals is to make sure the catcher is prepared for the pitch how about this extremely simple solution:
The pitcher wears a bluetooth headset, the catcher wears an earpiece. Right before the pitch, the pitcher covers his mouth with his glove and quietly says what the pitch will be to the catcher.
Problem solved. No signals to be stolen (let's assume they have the capability to make a secure connection that can't be hacked or intercepted).
I've been thinking of something similar where the picture and catcher have ear pieces for a coach to call in the pitch. Like the NFL has for calling in plays.
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It's the only good thing about this whole mess.
Two World Series champs tainted by cheating. If MLB was like the NCAA they would have just found some reason to look the other way and than lay a massive fine on the Orioles.
Seriously, this is sad stuff. I hate when guys or teams get caught cheating, be it like this or via drugs. Also sort of disappointing, but not surprising, to see the number of "Skip a Rope" hot takes here.
Seriously, this is sad stuff. I hate when guys or teams get caught cheating, be it like this or via drugs. Also sort of disappointing, but not surprising, to see the number of "Skip a Rope" hot takes here.
Still, this suspension and draft pick elimination was over the top. I'm not sure of the extent "technology" was used. As a Houston resident and fan, I casually heard they compared Hand Signals to pitch selection using live feed cameras. C'mon man.
My soft rebuttal is to reference Football using live-feed photos of Defensive Audibles and shifts. How many NFL QBs do we see reviewing live-feed photos waiting for the O to get back on field. They know the audible from the technology.
Stealing Hand-Signals is a part of MLB and it's time they find ways to counter the cameras.
My favorite past-time during a game is guessing Catcher signals and predicting Curve / FB/ or Slider. It gets real fun when the Catcher flutters his 4 fingers then point to location
Guessing, and Knowing, are two different things.
There is allot of smoke that they had been warned to stop doing it, and did it anyway. They were as obvious as using the bullpen phone to call and ask what the sign was. Somebody had to take the fall. Crane is also pissed because he didn't know about it, and now this tarnishes him. Do the crime, don't complain about the punishment.
Yikes. To put simply, as you get older, and guys start throwing breaking pitches and start throwing harder, you have to know what is coming, so you can actually catch it. I had major hand surgery after shattering my knuckle because I to this day swear I called a slider and the pitcher threw a fastball and it went off the pad. You catch fastballs different than you catch breaking pitches, than you catch change-ups etc. Watch when in MLB when pitchers and catchers get mixed up, it is a clown show.
Also, you do mix it up. You decide before the game which indicator you go on once a guy gets to second. You sometimes use hand fingers signals, sometimes you use body/hand signals. Sometimes you decide before the game to throw a certain pitch in a certain situation.
Patriots have been busted several times for stealing teams signs and what not. Astros just got caught, just like the Patriots. Those boards in football are there so the teams can go fast, so the defense can't substitute, they aren't really there to confuse anyone. I'm sure at halftime they have it pretty much figured out.
Also, pitchers are dumb meat sticks that have no idea how to actually manage a lineup, they just throw. I think this is the entire premise of Bull Durham.
Signed,
Caught all my life until I was in my 30s
Also there are 72 offensive plays in your average NCAA football game and each team generally has three guys signalling in the play - one with the actual play and two more who are decoys. If they are using cards there often is only one or two of the four images on the card that actually mean something. In addition there is a pretty big roster of plays they could be calling in. The same play is generally not run more than a handful of times in a game.
In baseball there are an average of 146 pitches thrown (twice as many signal opportunities), there is only one guy signalling the play, and there are generally 4 or fewer different pitches that a pitcher throws. So figuring out a simple system is dramatically easier. I hope they don't get to where the teams always have to use the more elaborate systems they now use when a player is on 2nd base. It will just be one more thing to slow down the game.
Proudly wearing my Houston Astros 2017 World Series Championship shirt today. I know it's not a popular opinion, but yes I would trade off all of the punishments for a World Championship. And I know many of you would too. Don't kid yourself.
Yeah, every single owner in any league would trade 5 mill, 4 draft picks, and a little bad press for a championship and a perrenial playoff calliber roster. Astros owner gets by with a slap on the wrist when he either knew or should have known. And nothing was done that affects the Astros ability to compete this year, they're gonna win 100 games and have another shot at another W.S.
Did the Patriots stop bending rules after any of the times they've been caught? And 20 years from now only the titles will be remembered.
Did the Patriots stop bending rules after any of the times they've been caught? And 20 years from now only the titles will be remembered.
They can't really take away the 2017 and 2018 world series results, but the COULD tell Houston and Boston that they cannot display the trophies and banners. Nor can they sell world series champion merchandise.
During the 2017 playoffs the Astros averaged 5.7 runs per game. On the road, 3.0 runs per game.
Altuve batted .472 at home and .143 on the road.
Correra batted .371 at home and .211 on the road.
Altuve batted .472 at home and .143 on the road.
Correra batted .371 at home and .211 on the road.
