Cool. And my agenda is this program continuing to maintain itself as a Top 30-35 program. I think we all know that it would be easier if CSP was the coach that did that. We just differ significantly on the amount of faith in it working out that way. Hopefully they compete hard and have a chance to beat Kansas on Wednesday.
What are the Expectations for Men’s Basketball at Iowa State?
- Thread starter Urbandale2013
- Start date
Cool. And my agenda is this program continuing to maintain itself as a Top 30-35 program. I think we all know that it would be easier if CSP was the coach that did that. We just differ significantly on the amount of faith in it working out that way. Hopefully they compete hard and have a chance to beat Kansas on Wednesday.
Never, ever finish Last Place; if it happens twice in 3-yrs = automatic firing.
Expectations aren't this cut and dry. Of course making the tourney every year is the type of goal you can fit in a box. But there are expectations that exceed the simplicity of simply making it. Last year's team for example: A 6 seed is great, but if not for a Big 12 tournament run, we were on that dreaded 8/9 line. That would have been mildly disappointing. Or how about in George's senior year they're anything worse than a 4 seed or 5th or worse in the Big 12? That's below expectation level.
Let's go back a year further, and examine the way we bowed out of the tourney in Fred's final season. I don't think losing in the first round like that fits an expectation.
Point being, the goal of simply making the tournament should not and would please the fan base or fit within logical expectation. It's always nice to be there, sure, but there are years you think could be special. There are years when 5th place in the conference just doesn't feel good enough. And we should never finish last.
Let's go back a year further, and examine the way we bowed out of the tourney in Fred's final season. I don't think losing in the first round like that fits an expectation.
Point being, the goal of simply making the tournament should not and would please the fan base or fit within logical expectation. It's always nice to be there, sure, but there are years you think could be special. There are years when 5th place in the conference just doesn't feel good enough. And we should never finish last.
10 year expectations:
- make the dance 6-7 times
- finish in the top half of the Big XII 4-5 times
- not finish last more than once
- not miss the dance more than 2 years in a row
I have other goals, but I don't have any expectations other than those. Expecting anything from the Big XII Tournament or March Madness is sorta silly since you have no idea about your opponent or injury situation.
- make the dance 6-7 times
- finish in the top half of the Big XII 4-5 times
- not finish last more than once
- not miss the dance more than 2 years in a row
I have other goals, but I don't have any expectations other than those. Expecting anything from the Big XII Tournament or March Madness is sorta silly since you have no idea about your opponent or injury situation.
Expectations that the OP should be able to spell our school name correctly in the thread title?
I was doing it in my phone. I tried to go edit it when I saw but I couldn’t find that portion.
I for the life of me don’t understand my phones auto correct. It misses obvious crap like that but I can type a normal word multiple times and it tries to change it to something weird. That’s an out her issue though
I do not disagree necessarily with this at all, but I also think there's a decent chance that the bottom two points could also cancel each other out.
I was doing it in my phone. I tried to go edit it when I saw but I couldn’t find that portion.
I for the life of me don’t understand my phones auto correct. It misses obvious crap like that but I can type a normal word multiple times and it tries to change it to something weird. That’s an out her issue though
At the very top of the thread (just above your first post) is something call "thread tools" which has an option for editing the title.
Fixed and as you can see my phone changed something in my last post I missed. For some reason it changed “another” to “an out her”
Not voting in the poll because I'm not reading all that, but here's where my expectations are at with the program.
Over 10 years I think we should be in the tournament 7-8 times and feel disappointed when we're not unless its very clear we're rebuilding that season, like Prohms 3rd year. Preferably not missing the tournament in back to back seasons and for sure not missing it 3 or more times in a row.
Out of those 7-8 times I'd like to have multiple years where we have a good seed(6 or higher). Not sure how many times is a fair ask. Maybe a little more than half? I guess my point with this one is that I'd rather not just be barely slipping in at a 10 or 11 and getting run out of the gym in the first round every season with no shot to ever go on a run.
For how far we advance in the tournament I don't really have a standard there since a lot of it depends on what happens to other teams besides you. I'll say get out of the first round most years and then see what happens. Beat teams other than mid majors too. Don't have to go KO a 1 seed or anything but don't just feast weak teams and then get bounced by anyone with a pulse.
For Big 12 play I'd say in seasons where we're good dont play on Wednesday in the Big 12 tournament. I'm not going to ask for championships, but like the big tournament I'd like a 1st round win in there. Not a deal breaker if we don't but it's something that would be nice. For winning it.... IDK. It would be nice to get 1 or 2 over 10 years but it doesn't bother me if we dont. Just don't get clowned in the first round. For the regular season finish above 9-9 in conference when we're good. For the regular season title I'd like to have a few teams be in the hunt at the end. Titles will be hard to come by if we play the double round robin and have KU and Beard in the conference so I'm not going to ask for that. There's so many conferences it's hard to remember who won what every year anyways. Just be close and eventually we'll get one.
I want the brand we used to have back. Maybe not the same exact one, but I want the team to be good at one specific thing most years. It doesn't bother me if thats offense, defense, style of play, good coaching, etc. Just one thing where I can come into the season and hang my hat on us doing that thing well. It can change and evolve as it needs to. Just dont be extremely mediocre at everything. I think having like this is important for a place like Iowa State. After enough sustained success it becomes less important but to build a program back up sometimes you need something like that, and a little predictability helps keep fanbase morale more stable.
Small one, but I'd like to see whoever our coach is at the bare minimum run some plays and have something to run when we need a bucket at the end of a game.
And finally, I want Hilton back. No more Florida A&M or Milwaukee losses ever, even when we're bad and rebuilding. No losing to NIT teams. No losing to Iowa and no losing to Drake or UNI if we play them again. We need to reestablish who the top program in the state is. Overall, no more than 2 losses max in Hilton per season and not let multiple teams build win streaks there(with exceptions when we're in a down year, obviously). Hilton used to be feared and for good reason. Now just about anyone can walk in there and win. Overall I think this is the most realistic one because we have one of the best fan bases in the country and we've made Hilton this or very close multiple times already in the 2000s.
And I think that's pretty much it. Not going to worry about recruiting or getting guys in the NBA because I don't really have anything for that and if you're good that'll come more often than not and I'd much rather have the other things I mentioned instead.
Over 10 years I think we should be in the tournament 7-8 times and feel disappointed when we're not unless its very clear we're rebuilding that season, like Prohms 3rd year. Preferably not missing the tournament in back to back seasons and for sure not missing it 3 or more times in a row.
Out of those 7-8 times I'd like to have multiple years where we have a good seed(6 or higher). Not sure how many times is a fair ask. Maybe a little more than half? I guess my point with this one is that I'd rather not just be barely slipping in at a 10 or 11 and getting run out of the gym in the first round every season with no shot to ever go on a run.
For how far we advance in the tournament I don't really have a standard there since a lot of it depends on what happens to other teams besides you. I'll say get out of the first round most years and then see what happens. Beat teams other than mid majors too. Don't have to go KO a 1 seed or anything but don't just feast weak teams and then get bounced by anyone with a pulse.
For Big 12 play I'd say in seasons where we're good dont play on Wednesday in the Big 12 tournament. I'm not going to ask for championships, but like the big tournament I'd like a 1st round win in there. Not a deal breaker if we don't but it's something that would be nice. For winning it.... IDK. It would be nice to get 1 or 2 over 10 years but it doesn't bother me if we dont. Just don't get clowned in the first round. For the regular season finish above 9-9 in conference when we're good. For the regular season title I'd like to have a few teams be in the hunt at the end. Titles will be hard to come by if we play the double round robin and have KU and Beard in the conference so I'm not going to ask for that. There's so many conferences it's hard to remember who won what every year anyways. Just be close and eventually we'll get one.
I want the brand we used to have back. Maybe not the same exact one, but I want the team to be good at one specific thing most years. It doesn't bother me if thats offense, defense, style of play, good coaching, etc. Just one thing where I can come into the season and hang my hat on us doing that thing well. It can change and evolve as it needs to. Just dont be extremely mediocre at everything. I think having like this is important for a place like Iowa State. After enough sustained success it becomes less important but to build a program back up sometimes you need something like that, and a little predictability helps keep fanbase morale more stable.
Small one, but I'd like to see whoever our coach is at the bare minimum run some plays and have something to run when we need a bucket at the end of a game.
And finally, I want Hilton back. No more Florida A&M or Milwaukee losses ever, even when we're bad and rebuilding. No losing to NIT teams. No losing to Iowa and no losing to Drake or UNI if we play them again. We need to reestablish who the top program in the state is. Overall, no more than 2 losses max in Hilton per season and not let multiple teams build win streaks there(with exceptions when we're in a down year, obviously). Hilton used to be feared and for good reason. Now just about anyone can walk in there and win. Overall I think this is the most realistic one because we have one of the best fan bases in the country and we've made Hilton this or very close multiple times already in the 2000s.
And I think that's pretty much it. Not going to worry about recruiting or getting guys in the NBA because I don't really have anything for that and if you're good that'll come more often than not and I'd much rather have the other things I mentioned instead.
Make the tourney 8/10 years is my expectation.
Prohms gonna miss 2/3 and the one he made was a first round exit with 2 first round NBA picks on the roster and a .9869 recruit in Wigginton not even starting.
Gave him the benefit of the doubt with Fred leaving the cupboard bare, began having doubts with how poor and inconsistent last years extremely talented team played at times, then we lose to FAMU and make poor decisions against TCU to lose this year. Dudes toeing the line.
Prohms gonna miss 2/3 and the one he made was a first round exit with 2 first round NBA picks on the roster and a .9869 recruit in Wigginton not even starting.
Gave him the benefit of the doubt with Fred leaving the cupboard bare, began having doubts with how poor and inconsistent last years extremely talented team played at times, then we lose to FAMU and make poor decisions against TCU to lose this year. Dudes toeing the line.
Wait, you cannot read the poll, but expect me to read the book your wrote?
1) Play hard and play a fun brand of basketball. This is what ISU hoops is - uptempo, high scoring, enjoyable to watch, etc.
2) Make the tourney 70/80% of the time, and at least make the NIT and don't be a bottom feeder in the conference in the down years - I don't think this is unreasonable given what we've seen over the past decade and with our (usual, although not recently under Prohm) home court advantage, speaking of which...
3) Defend Hilton. Don't lose to teams like Florida A&M or Milwaukee EVER at Hilton, and NEVER get blown out and give a pathetic effort against your in-state rival at Hilton. I know it's been said on here before, but this really is the quickest way to have the fan base turn on you.
These are not crazy expectations, and they all play into the identity of what Iowa State basketball should be.
2) Make the tourney 70/80% of the time, and at least make the NIT and don't be a bottom feeder in the conference in the down years - I don't think this is unreasonable given what we've seen over the past decade and with our (usual, although not recently under Prohm) home court advantage, speaking of which...
3) Defend Hilton. Don't lose to teams like Florida A&M or Milwaukee EVER at Hilton, and NEVER get blown out and give a pathetic effort against your in-state rival at Hilton. I know it's been said on here before, but this really is the quickest way to have the fan base turn on you.
These are not crazy expectations, and they all play into the identity of what Iowa State basketball should be.
Ha, fair enough. Got rolling on it and didn't notice it was so long until I submitted
The Asian superstar Pho King No Wan
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Did some analysis over lunch. Just realized ISU has been to five sweet sixteens over last 35 years. By five different coaches.
1986 Orr
1997 Floyd
2000 Eustachy (elite eight but sweet sixteen on the way there)
2014 Hoiberg
2016 Prohm
My metrics have the ISU teams in ranked order
1. 99-00 Eustachy (32-5), 1st conf, 1st conf tourney, elite eight
2. 13-14 Hoiberg (28-8), 4th conf, 1st conf tourney, sweet sixteen
3. 14-15 Hoiberg (25-9), 2nd conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
4. 95-96 Floyd (24-9), 2nd conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
5. 16-17 Prohm (24-11), 4th conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
6. 00-01 Eustachy (25-6), 1st conf, 0-1 conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
7. 85-86 Orr (22-11), 2nd conf, 2nd conf tourney, sweet sixteen
8. 96-97 Floyd (22-9), 4th conf, 1-1 conf tourney, sweet sixteen
9. 18-19 Prohm (23-12), 5th conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
10. 11-12 Hoiberg (23-11), 3rd conf, 0-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
11. 12-13 Hoiberg (23-12), 5th conf, 1-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
12. 15-16 Prohm (23-12), 6th conf, 0-1 conf tourney, sweet sixteen
13. 84-85 Orr (21-13), 3rd conf, 2nd conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
14. 94-95 Floyd (23-11), 5th conf, 2nd conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
15. 92-93 Orr (20-11), 3rd conf, 1-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
And there is a large gap between 1 & 2. Morgan's best team came in #16 (04-05), McDermott at #24 (06-07). We have been to NCAA (19) or NIT (3) 22 out of last 37 years.
1986 Orr
1997 Floyd
2000 Eustachy (elite eight but sweet sixteen on the way there)
2014 Hoiberg
2016 Prohm
My metrics have the ISU teams in ranked order
1. 99-00 Eustachy (32-5), 1st conf, 1st conf tourney, elite eight
2. 13-14 Hoiberg (28-8), 4th conf, 1st conf tourney, sweet sixteen
3. 14-15 Hoiberg (25-9), 2nd conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
4. 95-96 Floyd (24-9), 2nd conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
5. 16-17 Prohm (24-11), 4th conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
6. 00-01 Eustachy (25-6), 1st conf, 0-1 conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
7. 85-86 Orr (22-11), 2nd conf, 2nd conf tourney, sweet sixteen
8. 96-97 Floyd (22-9), 4th conf, 1-1 conf tourney, sweet sixteen
9. 18-19 Prohm (23-12), 5th conf, 1st conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
10. 11-12 Hoiberg (23-11), 3rd conf, 0-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
11. 12-13 Hoiberg (23-12), 5th conf, 1-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
12. 15-16 Prohm (23-12), 6th conf, 0-1 conf tourney, sweet sixteen
13. 84-85 Orr (21-13), 3rd conf, 2nd conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
14. 94-95 Floyd (23-11), 5th conf, 2nd conf tourney, rnd 64 loss
15. 92-93 Orr (20-11), 3rd conf, 1-1 conf tourney, rnd 32 loss
And there is a large gap between 1 & 2. Morgan's best team came in #16 (04-05), McDermott at #24 (06-07). We have been to NCAA (19) or NIT (3) 22 out of last 37 years.
