Star Wars episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker
- Thread starter NorthCyd
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The problem being that you have a trilogy saga without a definable story through two movies, and a scramble to cobble one together in the third. And that's on the executive producers.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I checked it out from the Library thinking I was paying too much but might as well give it a shot. I thought it was all right. Not perfect or anything, but I had a pretty good time.
I almost wonder if George Lucas was playing 4D chess on us --
The only thing that makes the prequels look like good filmmaking are the sequels. Maybe the Force told him that Disney would make this mess of everything.
The prequels were incompetently produced and directed, which falls on George Lucas as screenwriter and director who (1.) took on too much himself, (2.) rushed everything, and (3.) did not fill those roles with talent around him, like he did for the original trilogy. The CGI also has not aged well. How you make a genuine action BA like Liam Neeson, the Bad MFer himself, and one of the more nuanced actresses of her era in Natalie Portman somehow boring evades me. It was not like he lacked resources making them.
The prequels at least knew the story they wanted to tell and had influences. They were drawing on, to provide a non-exhaustive list...
Asimov's Foundation series
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Ben-Hur
Le Morte d'Arthur (in the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan)
old WWII action movies
...and several others, along with the stuff from The Lord of the Rings, Flash Gordon, Dune, Lawrence of Arabia, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Wagner, Holst, old Kurosawa films, and the like already present in the original trilogy.
The sequels had literally no ideas (7 and 9, from the sound of it) and no plan (8).
I appreciate an ambitious failure way more than I do a blah safe play.
L
LincolnWay187
Guest
The last one sucked...epicly. Maybe ill watch this one on hbo at some point. Disappointing because i thought the force awakens(7) set the table to make th next two decent.
My personal belief is that many Star Wars fans (my wife included) just want to be comfortably entertained with something they are familiar with. There isn't anything wrong with that; I think I've just grown out of it or gotten spoiled by better books/movies.
Honestly, I compare it to my reaction to Lev Grossman's "The Magician" series. I was not ready for it when I first read it and was so annoyed I dropped it after the first book. I wasn't ready for the themes of the series. I picked it back up a few years later and absolutely loved the entire series for what it was. The opposite is happening with these Star Wars movies for me. I quickly grew bored watching TFA once I realized what it was, but my childhood/teen self likely have would have adored it.
Honestly, I compare it to my reaction to Lev Grossman's "The Magician" series. I was not ready for it when I first read it and was so annoyed I dropped it after the first book. I wasn't ready for the themes of the series. I picked it back up a few years later and absolutely loved the entire series for what it was. The opposite is happening with these Star Wars movies for me. I quickly grew bored watching TFA once I realized what it was, but my childhood/teen self likely have would have adored it.
Hindsight being 20/20, I think TFA would have been better served as a standalone picture. To catch us up on what happened between RotJ and "now." Do all of the fan service there, but don't base a new trilogy on said fan service.
I know lots of incels hated TLJ because of PC-bs or whatever. That's not me. I hated it because the story was written by a four year-old.
I'm sorry, but these are spaceships. Sure, they can run out of fuel. So the Rebel Fleet is stuck. I'll even take you at your word that the First Order ships are slower than the Rebel Fleet and can't catch up with conventional propulsion and they're too close to jump to light speed and catch them. But these idiots have navigators, right? They can't plot a two-jump hyperspace journey to a point equidistant from their current position and the position they need to be in to end the Rebel fleet? Really?
Poe trolls the First Order commander over his walkie-talkie? Really?
Snoke. Fine, trope subverted. But what a waste.
Rose had no business stopping Finn. In the circumstances they faced, his action was their only possible chance at victory.
And Poe's actions pretty much sacrificed the entire Rebel military force. On top of that, he's a mutineer. He should be the victim of a battlefield execution.
That said, I don't see the incel's issues with Leia. She's strong with the force. She's been trained. Of course she can space walk for long enough to survive that.
I know lots of incels hated TLJ because of PC-bs or whatever. That's not me. I hated it because the story was written by a four year-old.
I'm sorry, but these are spaceships. Sure, they can run out of fuel. So the Rebel Fleet is stuck. I'll even take you at your word that the First Order ships are slower than the Rebel Fleet and can't catch up with conventional propulsion and they're too close to jump to light speed and catch them. But these idiots have navigators, right? They can't plot a two-jump hyperspace journey to a point equidistant from their current position and the position they need to be in to end the Rebel fleet? Really?
Poe trolls the First Order commander over his walkie-talkie? Really?
Snoke. Fine, trope subverted. But what a waste.
Rose had no business stopping Finn. In the circumstances they faced, his action was their only possible chance at victory.
And Poe's actions pretty much sacrificed the entire Rebel military force. On top of that, he's a mutineer. He should be the victim of a battlefield execution.
That said, I don't see the incel's issues with Leia. She's strong with the force. She's been trained. Of course she can space walk for long enough to survive that.
You made me laugh at that.
I find it funny, too, because otherwise Rian Johnson is proving quite the competent up-and-coming director. He fits the profile of an auteur who still has solid commercial instincts, not exactly a Spielberg, but definitely not a hack like Abrams.
Looper
Knives Out
...where both excellent, and so was his directing for Breaking Bad.
I do not know why it did not work when you applied him to Star Wars.
Agreed with your thoughts. The only thing I didn't like about the Leia spacewalk was how it was shot... They cut away after Kylo blew up the bridge and jettisoned Leia into space. I think if they would have just stayed with the camera on her, cued up "Leia's Theme" and saw her call upon the Force as her last-ditch effort to stay alive, it would have been accepted better.
My kids like the new series the most. BTW the Magicians book series is fantastic.
I don't really want to rehash TLJ. That movie had problems that were thoroughly discussed. The whole arc of the sequels has been flawed.
Disney bought themselves a Ferrari but it turns out they don't know how to drive a stick shift. They didn't really want it to drive, they wanted it to HAVE.
Disney bought themselves a Ferrari but it turns out they don't know how to drive a stick shift. They didn't really want it to drive, they wanted it to HAVE.
My biggest dissatisfaction with the new stuff is Rey and how it split the fan base 50/50 on whether or not she was a Skywalker descendent. They should have just established her lineage in the first film as just being a child of someone not named Skywalker, she's just force sensitive.
To me that's a better story arc, the rise of the Jedi is just that, the rising of the Jedi Order not just one person. Rey is still the main person but her actions are what should lead to the Jedi Order being re-established.
The last scene of the last movie where the kid in the stable uses the force to pull the broom to his hand was the only good part of that movie.
To me that's a better story arc, the rise of the Jedi is just that, the rising of the Jedi Order not just one person. Rey is still the main person but her actions are what should lead to the Jedi Order being re-established.
The last scene of the last movie where the kid in the stable uses the force to pull the broom to his hand was the only good part of that movie.
How do you not enjoy Snoke being cut down by Kylo in pure apprentice-becomes-the-master sith fashion?
Good point, I didn't mind that except all Star Wars nerds (myself included) had to remind everyone that Darth Maul survived the same/similar fate. He should have taken a lesson from Zombieland and double tapped him sushi chef style.
I didn't know he did Looper. I remember liking that movie. (Then again, I'm a junky for time loops stories.) I still haven't seen Knives Out yet. I bought tickets for opening night, forgetting that I was on-call at work. And wouldn't you know it, the calling service paged me when we were in the theatre lobby. So i still haven't seen it.
I didn't know he did Looper. I remember liking that movie. (Then again, I'm a junky for time loops stories.) I still haven't seen Knives Out yet. I bought tickets for opening night, forgetting that I was on-call at work. And wouldn't you know it, the calling service paged me when we were in the theatre lobby. So i still haven't seen it.
You poor thing.
You should find time to still see it over the holiday!
It is a fine mystery/detective film and the characters are either delightfully lovable or loathsome. Chris Evans definitely does a funny self-parody.
I disagree. The first movie/book in a trilogy is suppose to set the stage, the main conflict and to create more questions than answers.
The lord of the rings is a great example for this. At the end of the fellowship, we see a broken fellowship all scrambling to pick up the pieces and stay alive, much less complete their mission. Very few questions were answered there were MANY questions.
Rey's driving force is to find out who she is. She believes that if she finds out who her parents are, it will answer that question. She is trying to belong somewhere, that is what leads her on the journey with Finn.
If you answer that question in the first movie, what will drive her other than "Fighting the good fight?"
A New Hope told a satisfying and coherent story for its own sake and implied a larger universe with more stories to tell and more places for the characters to go.
Films that are just commercials for later films... excuse me... "setups"... are generally bad, or at least not nearly as satisfying as they could be with a complete story.
Going forward I feel like maybe Disney should reevaluate how it handles star wars. It's such a big universe, why shoehorn the movies into series of trilogies when you can tell a bunch of different stories and then bring them together occasionally ala Avengers? Having not seen TROS yet, maybe they would've been better off not feeling like they needed to make this an 'end' (marketing which has rubbed me wrong since the beginning)
