Grill

[Sigmapolis]

-- Tyrese is a beast... just a monster... we would be awful without him
-- Conditt needs to start soon... probably over Jacobson
-- Conditt, Young, and Jacobson are all going to play 25+ per night, though, so in some senses the titular starter is more a formality when all three have large roles

Between Jackson and Grill...

-- Grill has a much better ORTG, mostly because of he is just hitting shots and drawing fouls (from all ranges, while Jackson has just been bricking stuff so far)
-- Grill is also giving something on the boards, while Jackson has very few rebounds
-- pretty similar on turnovers, but Grill seems to be more "active" on defense with the quantifiable stuff generating blocks and steals... not sure that says Grill is a better positional/fundamental defender, but he is giving more #s

I know the sample sizes and level of competition are suspect, but Grill has been much better than Jackson so far. Heck, Grill is our best guard above.

Nixon has not exactly impressed so far, especially on offense.

Our best lineup might be...

Haliburton
Bolton
Grill
Conditt
Young

 

[Kurttr]

View attachment 68773

-- Tyrese is a beast... just a monster... we would be awful without him
-- Conditt needs to start soon... probably over Jacobson
-- Conditt, Young, and Jacobson are all going to play 25+ per night, though, so in some senses the titular starter is more a formality when all three have large roles

Between Jackson and Grill...

-- Grill has a much better ORTG, mostly because of he is just hitting shots and drawing fouls (from all ranges, while Jackson has just been bricking stuff so far)
-- Grill is also giving something on the boards, while Jackson has very few rebounds
-- pretty similar on turnovers, but Grill seems to be more "active" on defense with the quantifiable stuff generating blocks and steals... not sure that says Grill is a better positional/fundamental defender, but he is giving more #s

I know the sample sizes and level of competition are suspect, but Grill has been much better than Jackson so far. Heck, Grill is our best guard above.

Nixon has not exactly impressed so far, especially on offense.

Our best lineup might be...

Haliburton
Bolton
Grill
Conditt
Young

I’m on my phone so didn’t get much of a look at the stats. So, you may need to point out to me what clearly says Grill is the best guard - keep in mind that it’s a very small sample size, and Grill has played more against backups as well. Having said that, I like both Grill and Jackson. From the eye test, Jackson is much more polished at this point handling the ball and on D. If Grill doesn’t have a shot, he immediately gets rid of the ball. Not saying that’s a bad thing - heck, I’d like MJ to do that more! - but he’s not comfortable in the halfcourt set, other than spotting up for shots. I’m sure he will be in time. He needs to get more fluid/aware on D too.

Jackson’s frankly bricked a lot of threes, but I’m confident that he’ll get it going. Grill clearly has the higher athletic upside, which I think is heavily influencing some on this front. Let me turn it a different way, if Jackson was hitting from three and Grill had been off from three, would you still say that he’s clearly the best guard?

Again, I like them both and would be good with your starting lineup. I’d like to see both Grill and Jackson get more time and would like to see the Conditt/Solo pairing. Unfortunately, I doubt we’ll see either of those, as I think Prohm will ride Nixon quite awhile and sees Solo and Conditt as playing the same position. Hope that changes. (I am very happy with Prohm. Just noting how I expect he’ll roll with it. He has more patience than all of us. He’ll have the team improving throughout the season. Knows what he’s doing despite not always agreeing with me...)

 

[madguy30]

View attachment 68773

-- Tyrese is a beast... just a monster... we would be awful without him
-- Conditt needs to start soon... probably over Jacobson
-- Conditt, Young, and Jacobson are all going to play 25+ per night, though, so in some senses the titular starter is more a formality when all three have large roles

Between Jackson and Grill...

-- Grill has a much better ORTG, mostly because of he is just hitting shots and drawing fouls (from all ranges, while Jackson has just been bricking stuff so far)
-- Grill is also giving something on the boards, while Jackson has very few rebounds
-- pretty similar on turnovers, but Grill seems to be more "active" on defense with the quantifiable stuff generating blocks and steals... not sure that says Grill is a better positional/fundamental defender, but he is giving more #s

I know the sample sizes and level of competition are suspect, but Grill has been much better than Jackson so far. Heck, Grill is our best guard above.

Nixon has not exactly impressed so far, especially on offense.

Our best lineup might be...

Haliburton
Bolton
Grill
Conditt
Young

Wondering does Conditt's 'spark' or energy translate better coming off the bench?

 

[Sigmapolis]

I’m on my phone so didn’t get much of a look at the stats. So, you may need to point out to me what clearly says Grill is the best guard - keep in mind that it’s a very small sample size, and Grill has played more against backups as well. Having said that, I like both Grill and Jackson. From the eye test, Jackson is much more polished at this point handling the ball and on D. If Grill doesn’t have a shot, he immediately gets rid of the ball. Not saying that’s a bad thing - heck, I’d like MJ to do that more! - but he’s not comfortable in the halfcourt set, other than spotting up for shots. I’m sure he will be in time. He needs to get more fluid/aware on D too.

Jackson’s frankly bricked a lot of threes, but I’m confident that he’ll get it going. Grill clearly has the higher athletic upside, which I think is heavily influencing some on this front. Let me turn it a different way, if Jackson was hitting from three and Grill had been off from three, would you still say that he’s clearly the best guard?

Again, I like them both and would be good with your starting lineup. I’d like to see both Grill and Jackson get more time and would like to see the Conditt/Solo pairing. Unfortunately, I doubt we’ll see either of those, as I think Prohm will ride Nixon quite awhile and sees Solo and Conditt as playing the same position. Hope that changes. (I am very happy with Prohm. Just noting how I expect he’ll roll with it. He has more patience than all of us. He’ll have the team improving throughout the season. Knows what he’s doing despite not always agreeing with me...)

My "best guard" was more of a throwaway line than a clear analytical conclusion of Grill's obvious superiority. Based on the PRPG! data, however, Grill has the highest points above replacement rating than any of the other guards. He has the best true shooting percentage of the guards and records good defensive stats (steals, blocks).

He is not a slam dunk for the reasons you point out -- small sample size, low level of competition, etc. -- but he is looking pretty good so far. The numbers bear it out. You can say that, "What if Jackson was hitting shots and Grill was bricking them?" I do not understand the premise of the question, though. What if Naz long missed most of his shots? He would be a bad player. I think we are too early to say "you are who you are," and I think Jackson will become more comfortable in time, but I prefer to look at the information we actually have. Grill scores, Jackson misses shots. We know because we saw it.

I trust Prohm on this one, too, and his track record says he has a strong preference for upperclassmen relative to newer players. I am of the mind you play the best guys no matter the age and, if there is something close to a tie, you go with the younger player for the sake of giving them experience and investing in the future of the program rather than a senior who is on their way out anyways. Nixon might play good defense, but if he keeps both (1.) shooting a lot and (2.) bricking it, then he needs to either fix #1 or #2 or I think you need to give his minutes to Grill and Jackson to help build them up.

Those two could be the core of your guard rotation for the next three years.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I’m on my phone so didn’t get much of a look at the stats. So, you may need to point out to me what clearly says Grill is the best guard - keep in mind that it’s a very small sample size, and Grill has played more against backups as well. Having said that, I like both Grill and Jackson. From the eye test, Jackson is much more polished at this point handling the ball and on D. If Grill doesn’t have a shot, he immediately gets rid of the ball. Not saying that’s a bad thing - heck, I’d like MJ to do that more! - but he’s not comfortable in the halfcourt set, other than spotting up for shots. I’m sure he will be in time. He needs to get more fluid/aware on D too.

Jackson’s frankly bricked a lot of threes, but I’m confident that he’ll get it going. Grill clearly has the higher athletic upside, which I think is heavily influencing some on this front. Let me turn it a different way, if Jackson was hitting from three and Grill had been off from three, would you still say that he’s clearly the best guard?

Again, I like them both and would be good with your starting lineup. I’d like to see both Grill and Jackson get more time and would like to see the Conditt/Solo pairing. Unfortunately, I doubt we’ll see either of those, as I think Prohm will ride Nixon quite awhile and sees Solo and Conditt as playing the same position. Hope that changes. (I am very happy with Prohm. Just noting how I expect he’ll roll with it. He has more patience than all of us. He’ll have the team improving throughout the season. Knows what he’s doing despite not always agreeing with me...)

Conditt’s defense outside of shot-blocking will keep him from starting imo.

 

[Aclone]

Let’s not rush this kid.

When he signed, I think we all considered him pretty raw as a basketball player, because of his multi-sport background. A bit of a project who would take some time to develop, before he’d see the floor.

He’s ahead of that curve.

 

[Kurttr]

My "best guard" was more of a throwaway line than a clear analytical conclusion of Grill's obvious superiority. Based on the PRPG! data, however, Grill has the highest points above replacement rating than any of the other guards. He has the best true shooting percentage of the guards and records good defensive states (steals, blocks).

He is not a slam dunk for the reasons you point out -- small sample size, low level of competition, etc. -- but he is looking pretty good so far. The numbers bear it out. You can say that, "What if Jackson was hitting shots and Grill was bricking them?" I do not understand the premise of the question, though. What if Naz long missed most of his shots? He would be a bad player. I think we are too early to say "you are who you are," and I think Jackson will become more comfortable in time, but I prefer to look at the information we actually have. Grill scores, Jackson misses shots. We know because we saw it.

I trust Prohm on this one, too, and his track record says he has a strong preference for upperclassmen relative to newer players. I am of the mind you play the best guys no matter the age and, if there is something close to a tie, you go with the younger player for the sake of giving them experience and investing in the future of the program rather than a senior who is on their way out anyways. Nixon might play good defense, but if he keeps both (1.) shooting a lot and (2.) bricking it, then he needs to either fix #1 or #2 or I think you need to give his minutes to Grill and Jackson to help build them up.

Those two could be the core of your guard rotation for the next three years.

No doubt what we’ve seen suggests Grill is a much better shooter than Jackson and all others on the team. But, that is a very small sample size for Grill and it’s four games for all. Jackson is a proven shooter/scorer from his HS days and will get it going. I had someone with some ties to the BB team tell me at the FB game this weekend that it’s typical for frosh to start out slow with shooting, due to the shock to their system from the physical demands of playing D on the D1 level. That speaks well for Grill’s athleticism/stamina, but it also may explain why Jackson is starting a bit slow. If we can have them both shooting in the high 30%s that’ll be great.

After this last game, I definitely share your concern about Nixon - even though he hit a few shots. Where was the stellar D? If he doesn’t pick up his D in a big way, we should start seeing a lot more of Grill and Jackson.

 

[cyfamily]

No offense but I love how good white guy players always get this compliment. I bet he hustles when he is out there also. haha

Actually I was thinking more about the fact that he is a coach's kid. Same thing I thought about Monte....another coach's kid. They are detailed and do all the little things right. Has nothing to do with race. BTW, no offense taken, but it was an odd comment.

 

[bosco]

Conditt’s defense outside of shot-blocking will keep him from starting imo.

I think his spark of the bench gives them a different look. That's why I like him off the bench.

 

[Doc]

Conditt’s defense outside of shot-blocking will keep him from starting imo.

Agree. I think it’s best for them to start the best post defender. Often times teams don’t have many guys who can post you up efficiently so then your lesser post defenders are coming off the bench against guys who can’t do a whole lot of damage. So ideally you have Solomon defending the better post up guy while
Conditt is playing against a lineup without as much of a post presence where his off ball defense becomes more valuable. Theoretically.

 

[bozclone]

I like how CSP has handled Grill and Jackson so far. He is making an effort to get both of them minutes without over doing it. If they play well I'm sure they will get more minutes. It will be interesting to see if he trusts them enough to play them much against Michigan.

Conditt's minutes need to increase if it doesn't affect his energy. I think he has a really high ceiling. The more he plays the move he will develop his game.

A lot of the guys are still trying to figure out their role on this team. Nixson, Jacobson, and Bolton especially. They each need to maximize their strengths and limit the weaknesses in their games.

 

[VeloClone]

Reading this thread it makes me sorry that both Grill and Jackson can't get some minutes and it has to be just one or the other.

 

[GetAwesome]

Two thoughts...
1) I like athletic athletes. I really can't stand when a team puts non-athletic athletes into competition.
2) I'm a huge fan of Prohm's decision to have Eric Steyer and Carter Boothe average 2 MPG.

 

[BryceC]

Our best lineup might be...

Haliburton
Bolton
Grill
Conditt
Young

100% I think this is going to be the best lineup by midseason. Nixon is great on D, he just doesn't bring much else to the table. It sounds bad but he'd just be better if he shot less.

 

[Statefan10]

100% I think this is going to be the best lineup by midseason. Nixon is great on D, he just doesn't bring much else to the table. It sounds bad but he'd just be better if he shot less.

I like Nixon's ability to drive and finish and he's done pretty well at that this year. I'm concerned that he might think he's a little bit better of a shooter than he really is, so he needs to take his shots when they're good shots and not force it. Hopefully as the season progresses his game does too. I really like him on the defensive end and he's a pest. Guys like him, who actually want to give it all on the defensive end an entire game and not just get told to, are guys that are hard to come by in today's game.

 

[heitclone]

View attachment 68773

-- Tyrese is a beast... just a monster... we would be awful without him
-- Conditt needs to start soon... probably over Jacobson
-- Conditt, Young, and Jacobson are all going to play 25+ per night, though, so in some senses the titular starter is more a formality when all three have large roles

Between Jackson and Grill...

-- Grill has a much better ORTG, mostly because of he is just hitting shots and drawing fouls (from all ranges, while Jackson has just been bricking stuff so far)
-- Grill is also giving something on the boards, while Jackson has very few rebounds
-- pretty similar on turnovers, but Grill seems to be more "active" on defense with the quantifiable stuff generating blocks and steals... not sure that says Grill is a better positional/fundamental defender, but he is giving more #s

I know the sample sizes and level of competition are suspect, but Grill has been much better than Jackson so far. Heck, Grill is our best guard above.

Nixon has not exactly impressed so far, especially on offense.

Our best lineup might be...

Haliburton
Bolton
Grill
Conditt
Young

Have Conditt and Young been on the floor much together, I've listened to every game but only gotten to see the USM game in its entirty on TV?

 

[LLCoolCY]

I like Nixon's ability to drive and finish and he's done pretty well at that this year. I'm concerned that he might think he's a little bit better of a shooter than he really is, so he needs to take his shots when they're good shots and not force it. Hopefully as the season progresses his game does too. I really like him on the defensive end and he's a pest. Guys like him, who actually want to give it all on the defensive end an entire game and not just get told to, are guys that are hard to come by in today's game.

I'd guess Prohm told Nixon to shoot 3's agressively in the non-con to give him and Prohm confidence he can do it before the conference season.
If PN doesn't shoot better I am sure Prohm will adjust and ask him to shoot less and drive more. Both need to learn the best way to use Nixon's game in Hilton.

 

[Doc]

Grill may be the best spring recruit we’ve gotten since Wesley Johnson but he’s so raw. Improving by the minute, but still so raw. Kind of like Zion.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Reading this thread it makes me sorry that both Grill and Jackson can't get some minutes and it has to be just one or the other.

Well, technically nothing says you cannot run a nine-man rotation (even if history says Prohm is going to want to shorten that to more like 7-8 come conference season). I do not think the rotation will extend, but...

Additionally, even within the guard corps, I think only Haliburton is truly 100% safe and is going to play 35+ minutes per night (if not 40 much of the time). Bolton is probably 99% safe. Nixon, however, while I am not giving up on him and I am sure that Prohm is going to be loyal to a fifth-year senior to a fault, has not shown anything that says he is going to be a sure starter all season so far (at least to me).

There is nothing that says Grill and/or Jackson could not push for the third and fourth guard spots in the rotation. The rotation can change throughout the year, especially as freshmen get more and more of their seas legs under them. Depending on what Haliburton does in the offseason, at least one or even both of them could be starting next year. Sometimes investing in the future is the best thing you can do, especially if they are pretty close to an upperclassman as it is already.