RECRUITING: Caleb Grill commits

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Cycsk

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Nice to see Grill get some time out there. I think we are really going to enjoy the offense he brings. Defense was another matter last night. He looked a bit lost on the defensive end.
 

Statefan10

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Nice to see Grill get some time out there. I think we are really going to enjoy the offense he brings. Defense was another matter last night. He looked a bit lost on the defensive end.
On defense, Grill seems to be just a step slow at times but that will come with more playing time. His length will help him with that, but offensively he's looking very nice. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time, as we saw with that tremendous save by Halliburton in the second half. His knowledge for the game is great and I think his two threes tonight will show Prohm that he needs to get more PT. Our ball movement has been very good so far and because of that, he's been able to get quite a few good looks this season. The big thing is that he's capitalized on those shots so far. Being able to bring a guy off the bench who can make a couple threes will be huge.
 

BryceC

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On defense, Grill seems to be just a step slow at times but that will come with more playing time.

I disagree, I think he'll be fine. On the one where he got twisted and then I honestly thought he finished with a block but got a foul called on him, he just got his footwork messed up a bit. I think he's fine I think it's a fundamentals issue. He definitely looks better than Thomas did as a freshman and Thomas made himself into a good defender.
 

Cycsk

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On defense, Grill seems to be just a step slow at times but that will come with more playing time. His length will help him with that, but offensively he's looking very nice. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time, as we saw with that tremendous save by Halliburton in the second half. His knowledge for the game is great and I think his two threes tonight will show Prohm that he needs to get more PT. Our ball movement has been very good so far and because of that, he's been able to get quite a few good looks this season. The big thing is that he's capitalized on those shots so far. Being able to bring a guy off the bench who can make a couple threes will be huge.


A few times on defense when it seemed that he was looking for his guy, he went toward a guy near the basket and I wondered if it was actually great defense because he might be helping out someone else who had left his man open.

I'm very glad that he got so much time on the court to experience basketball at a D-1 pace.
 

Rural

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On defense, Grill seems to be just a step slow at times but that will come with more playing time. His length will help him with that, but offensively he's looking very nice. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time, as we saw with that tremendous save by Halliburton in the second half. His knowledge for the game is great and I think his two threes tonight will show Prohm that he needs to get more PT. Our ball movement has been very good so far and because of that, he's been able to get quite a few good looks this season. The big thing is that he's capitalized on those shots so far. Being able to bring a guy off the bench who can make a couple threes will be huge.



I haven't seen them and won't until they're on an actual TV station.

Is the short synopsis that we have good ball movement but can't shoot?
 

BryceC

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Honestly the ball movement last night was pretty bad too. You can tell they are still finding the way they are going to play. Way too much dribbling and just passing the ball around the perimeter.
 

Statefan10

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I disagree, I think he'll be fine. On the one where he got twisted and then I honestly thought he finished with a block but got a foul called on him, he just got his footwork messed up a bit. I think he's fine I think it's a fundamentals issue. He definitely looks better than Thomas did as a freshman and Thomas made himself into a good defender.
Yeah I agree with that I think I'm probably over analyzing it. I think he's maybe closed out too close to his man a few times this year, where the guy then was able to beat him off the first step, but honestly he's done a good job of being able to use his length to get back to the correct position. And I totally agree that so far he looks more polished than Matt did on defense.
 

Statefan10

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I haven't seen them and won't until they're on an actual TV station.

Is the short synopsis that we have good ball movement but can't shoot?
Last night we went away from moving the ball in the first half and I think you might've seen why we were shooting so poorly. We couldn't get a good look because a lot of the stuff was one on one. In the second half our defense gave us some life and we were able to get much better looks on offense. We moved the ball around and attacked gaps that gave us quite a few layups and dishes to our big men. The three point shots just weren't falling. I'd say 75% of them were pretty good looks that just didn't want to go in, but came off of good ball movement. Tyrese took a few really deep ones that I wish he would've been a couple feet closer, and Coach Prohm talked about that in the post game press conference. A lot of the threes were also in and out and just didn't get that roll. I think we're going to be an okay three point shooting team.. not great, but definitely not as bad as what was shown last night.
 

Statefan10

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Honestly the ball movement last night was pretty bad too. You can tell they are still finding the way they are going to play. Way too much dribbling and just passing the ball around the perimeter.
It was 100 times better in the second half that the first and I think our defense helped a ton with that. We got some easy run outs which got our tempo up and we started attacking the basket more instead of settling. We also did a nice job of feeding our big men. When they'd shrink down on Mike, Conditt, or Solo, we did a good job of passing it out, swinging it around and attacking the rim.
 
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Rural

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Last night we went away from moving the ball in the first half and I think you might've seen why we were shooting so poorly. We couldn't get a good look because a lot of the stuff was one on one. In the second half our defense gave us some life and we were able to get much better looks on offense. We moved the ball around and attacked gaps that gave us quite a few layups and dishes to our big men. The three point shots just weren't falling. I'd say 75% of them were pretty good looks that just didn't want to go in, but came off of good ball movement. Tyrese took a few really deep ones that I wish he would've been a couple feet closer, and Coach Prohm talked about that in the post game press conference. A lot of the threes were also in and out and just didn't get that roll. I think we're going to be an okay three point shooting team.. not great, but definitely not as bad as what was shown last night.



The NBA game is having an effect, Dame Lillard and Trae Young think nothing of letting it fly from 40 feet.
 

Statefan10

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The NBA game is having an effect, Dame Lillard and Trae Young think nothing of letting it fly from 40 feet.
The line change in college basketball also is having an effect. When our ball screen is set at the three point line and their guys go under, it's going to leave you open but you're going to be at about NBA distance and honestly, Tyrese was probably even further. Whereas last year when we'd set the ball screen at that different distance, we were probably shooting right where the line currently is at. I don't have a problem with Tyrese taking deep threes, but starting the game with a couple of deep shots is incredibly tough when you haven't made anything yet. Coach Prohm addressed that they might have to start setting their screens a little lower if teams are going to go under them.
 
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bozclone

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Really impressed with Grill and Jackson's maturity this early. They don't look out of place on the court.
 
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Kurttr

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It was 100% times better in the second half that the first and I think our defense helped a ton with that. We got some easy run outs which got our tempo up and we started attacking the basket more instead of settling. We also did a nice job of feeding our big men. When they'd shrink down on Mike, Conditt, or Solo, we did a good job of passing it out, swinging it around and attacking the rim.
For much of the 1st half "ball movement" seemed to simply involve the players passing the ball around the three-point line, with no thought of driving into seams or otherwise. As you said, we took a much better approach in the 2nd half - seemed to have woken up by then, as only Solo and Bolton showed up to play in the 1st half.

Prohm's teams always take awhile to get a sense of how the offense should work, and with all the new players (even Solo & Prentiss sat out last year) this year, it's going to take awhile. The inability to hit the three last night was almost comical. I don't expect us to be hitting 45% a game, but I doubt we'll see something that bad again this year. Many were open looks that just wouldn't go it. Tyrese surprisingly really forced several from way out. He seems to be figuring out what he's going to do on the offensive end; of the guards, only Bolton seems to have a good feel for his role -- he can really drive to the hoop.
 

BryceC

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Yeah I agree with that I think I'm probably over analyzing it. I think he's maybe closed out too close to his man a few times this year, where the guy then was able to beat him off the first step, but honestly he's done a good job of being able to use his length to get back to the correct position. And I totally agree that so far he looks more polished than Matt did on defense.

Yeah I think it's less a footspeed issue than a fundamentals issue. You're right, he just gets himself a bit out of position from what I watched yesterday. That'll improve. Super excited about him as a prospect, he'll be a great one here.
 

Sigmapolis

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It was 100% times better in the second half that the first and I think our defense helped a ton with that. We got some easy run outs which got our tempo up and we started attacking the basket more instead of settling. We also did a nice job of feeding our big men. When they'd shrink down on Mike, Conditt, or Solo, we did a good job of passing it out, swinging it around and attacking the rim.

Good point that giving Jacobson paint touches and forcing the double -- Mike is not Niang when it comes to beating just about anybody one-on-one on the block, but he has a nice set of post moves and is crafty under the basket following his own shot. After the double comes, as you said, we were much better moving the ball and forcing the defense to scramble to react and find their man again. That can provide open shots from outside, but it also can provide quality driving lanes to the hoop, where you either score or end up drawing a foul (or in the case of Bolton a few times last night, both of those).

Bolton reminds me of a "reverse" Wigginton. Wigginton was an overrated driver and finisher but an underrated shooter. He was just as good as Naz/Matt. Bolton, I think, is the opposite. He is not as good of a shooter as Wigginton, but he is already proving a little better in going to the hoop looking to finish, draw contact, or finish through contact/the foul.

Basic math says 3 > 2 when it comes to offense, yes, but we are just lacking the shooters right now to want to bombs away from outside like we have traditionally have. Focusing the offense on attacking and scoring near the hoop in the chaos that provokes might be our best bet until the balls are a little mistier to start shooting from outside.
 

Statefan10

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For much of the 1st half "ball movement" seemed to simply involve the players passing the ball around the three-point line, with no thought of driving into seams or otherwise. As you said, we took a much better approach in the 2nd half - seemed to have woken up by then, as only Solo and Bolton showed up to play in the 1st half.

Prohm's teams always take awhile to get a sense of how the offense should work, and with all the new players (even Solo & Prentiss sat out last year) this year, it's going to take awhile. The inability to hit the three last night was almost comical. I don't expect us to be hitting 45% a game, but I doubt we'll see something that bad again this year. Many were open looks that just wouldn't go it. Tyrese surprisingly really forced several from way out. He seems to be figuring out what he's going to do on the offensive end; of the guards, only Bolton seems to have a good feel for his role -- he can really drive to the hoop.
Yes I really like Bolton's game. He has very good athleticism for his size and that dunk he had in the first half was pretty high level. I think we had trouble with NIU going underneath our screens and we were forcing some not very good threes in the first half. That changed in the second half by a good job of Prohm switching things up. I agree on the threes. We are probably not going to shoot a great percentage from the three point line this year, but I think if we can be in the high 30's, that will be fine. Teams that "live by the three, die by the three have a tendency to typically die by the three when the going gets tough.

That was the worst shooting performance we've had since we went to NYC to play South Carolina in 2015. Now, I think that team was a much better shooting team than this one was, but I would chalk last night's game up as just a statistical anomaly and nothing more.

Tyrese needs to open up his game more. He's still figuring things out and I think gets into his head at times. He sees the floor just about as well as anyone in the country but he absolutely needs to try and get the ball all the way to the rim when it's there. He'll find that the more times he does that, the more the defense will suck in so he can find open players.
 
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Bigman38

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If he can keep shooting three's at that clip then he'll work his way into some major minutes this year. He's raw but he could be that guy this team needs to stretch the floor a bit.
 
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heitclone

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Good point that giving Jacobson paint touches and forcing the double -- Mike is not Niang when it comes to beating just about anybody one-on-one on the block, but he has a nice set of post moves and is crafty under the basket following his own shot. After the double comes, as you said, we were much better moving the ball and forcing the defense to scramble to react and find their man again. That can provide open shots from outside, but it also can provide quality driving lanes to the hoop, where you either score or end up drawing a foul (or in the case of Bolton a few times last night, both of those).

Bolton reminds me of a "reverse" Wigginton. Wigginton was an overrated driver and finisher but an underrated shooter. He was just as good as Naz/Matt. Bolton, I think, is the opposite. He is not as good of a shooter as Wigginton, but he is already proving a little better in going to the hoop looking to finish, draw contact, or finish through contact/the foul.

Basic math says 3 > 2 when it comes to offense, yes, but we are just lacking the shooters right now to want to bombs away from outside like we have traditionally have. Focusing the offense on attacking and scoring near the hoop in the chaos that provokes might be our best bet until the balls are a little mistier to start shooting from outside.

Mike needs to be better about moving the ball, last night, every time he got the ball, he stops, squares his shoulders up, then decides what to do, it almost always gave NIU time to react. It cost him a couple TO's last night and made him totally miss a few guys for open shots. Hes the most skilled big we have so it makes sense to run things through him but he needs to be quicker with his decisons. In the big 12 (or p5 non con), teams won't double team him so to help create the space a double would usually make, he's going to need to move the ball quicker.