Great recognition.
A lot of freshman and/or guys assumed to be taking big steps forward on the list.
A lot of freshman and/or guys assumed to be taking big steps forward on the list.
Tyrese Haliburton ranked high on top PG list
- Thread starter isubett
- Start date
Monte and TH are such different players. It’s like Jalen Rose vs Bobby Hurley. Only thing they have in common is a “PG” by their picture on the lineups graphic on TV.
Did he do much of that kind of stuff in Greece?
I would argue TH is a better defender, too, if only by being longer.
Being able to touch your knees without bending over is a skill on the basketball court.
Not to be knocking on Monte, but to be fair, the "all time NCAA record" is of a stat that started being recorded in 2008. The entire history of that stat being recorded was less than 10 years old when he set it.
I’m gonna go doofus scout in Moneyball here, but Tyrese looks and talks like he aged 5 years this offseason, and is ready to go. He’s got Nixon to handle the load defensively, Bolton to take some pressure off him on offense, and experience and a little shooting in the front court. I would probably rank Ayo, Jones, and Anthony in front of him.
It’s getting foggy, but it does seem like freshman Morris displayed more diversity on offense.
Both had great offensive ratings while having low usage (the lowest usage of all rotation players) on teams with three high usage guys. However, Morris had a 3PAr of only .385 while Tyrese was at .677. Morris also had a significantly higher FTr at .402 with Tyrese at .156.
There was similar discussion about whether a sophomore Morris could carry the team, although he did have Georges, several other guys with starting experience, and added BDJ and Nader.
To be fair he's also got 4 of the top 7 seasons in that time. Only a couple guys have appeard in the top 25 more than once. That's enough to show that in an exceptional career it was an exceptional season. An all timer.
I want to be clear. I think they are both basketball gods and I am thrilled I get to travel to Denver and watch MM a few times every year.
This is a really, really fun discussion to be having.
This is a really, really fun discussion to be having.
There's no doubt that Monte had the better supporting cast his first 3 seasons. It's debatable, and more importantly, undetermined, how Thomas, Naz, and Burton compare to Bolton, Nixon, and Jacobsen.
For me, it's less about comparing Monte and Tyrese, and more about just what Tyrese can do. Can he elevate his game enough to lead the team statistically, and have the leadership to carry the team to the tournament? A top 5 PG in the country can't be the third leading scorer, and not able to drive the lane.
I can't remember honestly. I think his pts per game were very modest, but again, with the talent around him, he didn't need to be the guy that got points. Can Iowa St finish top 5 of the Big 12, and make the tournament if Tyrese is averaging 10pts 4 rebs and 5 ast?
What makes TH standout is that he’s not every other PG. He’s evolved a pretty unique game where he can still be effective without getting in to the lane. With Bolton eligible I expect you’ll see a lot of the same as last year when he had THT and Wigg to do the driving work so he can spot up and shoot 3’s which he is elite at making when open.
Very true. He is not the prototypical pg we see in college basketball. I hope he can continue to be very good from 3, but if that's going to be his primary scoring, then he needs to be taking a bunch more attempts this season. He only avgd 3 attempts per game last year, whereas Lindell and Shayok were at 5.
At the end of the day, someone on this team has got to get points. Not likely that the starting 5 avg 12 pts a piece, and you get an additional 12 from the bench. Who ever it is that steps up this season, will be making a significant jump in pts per game.
We’re set up pretty well in the backcourt. If Tyrese is just an improved version of the floor spacer/ball mover/defender he was last year, we’ll be fine. If he makes a leap and becomes the guy like Monte was his senior year, that’s great, but it’s not necessary because Tyrese is already a plus player off the ball. We got guys that can get points in Jacobsen, Nixon, Bolton, Lewis, and Jackson, but Tyrese is going to be the key in how efficient those points are.
Sounds like you are basing your opinion off of it, so I just assumed that that was your direction based on the way your presented your post. If that assumption was incorrect, my apologies.
But it does seem like you are really pushing the Monte is better because of that one stat. Which is fair. I just don't think it's fair to TH that because he didn't break the record he isn't/can't be as good as Monte was or will be, that is all I was saying.
Who do you think are the best pick-and-roll pairings to initiate the offense this year...?
Kind of been our thing for awhile now...
Morris/Niang
Morris/Burton
NWB/Young
NWB/Jacobson
...so which pair is next, assuming our offense is going to stay similar?
Finding similar setups is natural though in terms of projecting year-over-year improvement. Is Morris the most apt comparison, I’m not sure. Imo Morris displayed more ability as a freshman in terms of the skills needed to elevate his game, plus had a supporting cast to not necessitate it.
Perhaps I’m going undervaluing TH, but I don’t feel as good about this year if he needs to be the top scorer, maybe even the 2nd scorer. I think he could be a top pg as an elite facilitator and overall player, but a secondary or even slight tertiary scorer. What he cannot be is just a great distributor on a bad team. That’s basically NWB in 17-18
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I don’t consider TH a distributor at all. Good passer, not a distributor type PG. He’s going to be off the ball as much as he’s on it. A PG in TV graphics only. TH is just really hard to define which is what makes him good.
Even in HS, when he was the best player on the floor, Tyrese didn't need the ball in his hands to dominate. He just always moves it the right spot. He's a PG for the sake of having to label him but he and Monte are worlds apart in terms of how they play. I don't think we'll ever see ISO plays for Tyrese where he is expected to make a play or make a play for someone else, Monte was built for that, Tyrese is going to get his as it comes in the flow of the game.
