Mortgage Refi Question

chadly82

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 10, 2009
5,068
3,687
113
Yeah, there's something to be said for having the flexibility to drop those payments down if something happens (income drop\loss, unexpected emergency, etc).
Absolutely, that flexibility is awesome and when you do the math on the amortization calculator the difference is very small.
 
  • Like
Reactions: keepngoal

cyfan92

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2011
7,387
11,756
113
Augusta National Golf Club
without origination fees, your looking between $2-$3K but depending on what the current rate vs refi rate, as well as if you have Mortgage Insurance (aka: MI/PMI/BPMI/etc), you can recoup that cost anywhere between 12-36months. if you get an appraisal waiver... cut around $500 off those costs. If you're still worried about that cost, just talk to your lender about it.

The numbers can look intimidating once you include the funding of a new escrow account but you also skip a months payment and would receive an escrow refund from your current servicer so those figures net out once its all said and done.

full disclosure, I am an originator so my livelihood is tied to people buying and refinancing their homes. with that said, I'm not in the business of turning loans just to cash a check. I've been working on a lot of refi's the last couple months and doing a ton of side by side comparisons for folks, it's been overwhelming positive for folks that originated within the last 24 months. If you have any improvements you want to do or debt consolidation, this is not a bad time to do it... even if rates continue to drop some, just not sure where the floor on the rate drop is.


How often do you originate a refi and wave the appraisal? I bought my house about a year ago and it seems silly that I'd need a new one. Just trying to save money..
 

chadly82

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 10, 2009
5,068
3,687
113
How often do you originate a refi and wave the appraisal? I bought my house about a year ago and it seems silly that I'd need a new one. Just trying to save money..
Its actually more often than you think especially if you have a bunch of equity and recently did something that the bank already is aware of. I used to originate as well and saw quite a bit of it, I did a HEQ LOC 3 years ago to help pay for my wedding and no appraisal was needed either.
 

JY07

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2009
1,613
331
83
DSM
30 year note, make the 15 year note payments.

I've mentioned this in one of the other threads, but I'll reiterate: only do this after you've calculated what the interest is for each early in the term.

It may be nice to have that flexibility, but depending on how big your loan is, that flexibility is probably costing you $100 in additional interest every month
 
  • Like
Reactions: capitalcityguy

keepngoal

OKA: keepingoal
Staff member
Bookie
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jun 20, 2006
38,264
22,535
113
I've mentioned this in one of the other threads, but I'll reiterate: only do this after you've calculated what the interest is for each early in the term.

It may be nice to have that flexibility, but depending on how big your loan is, that flexibility is probably costing you $100 in additional interest every month
It really only works if you want the 30 yr mortgage. If you want to pay the least amount of interest possible, there are other solutions.
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,387
11,176
113
I've mentioned this in one of the other threads, but I'll reiterate: only do this after you've calculated what the interest is for each early in the term.

It may be nice to have that flexibility, but depending on how big your loan is, that flexibility is probably costing you $100 in additional interest every month

A 30 year is almost all interest early on so that difference can be large. That said I think I'm going to get a 30 year and then make a large principle payment when our current home sells. That will cut it down to about 15 years.
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
How often do you originate a refi and wave the appraisal? I bought my house about a year ago and it seems silly that I'd need a new one. Just trying to save money..

It could work to your advantage to get a new appraisal. Depending on your loan to value (LTV), an increase in value could diminish your need for PMI or remove a loan level price adjustment and get you a better rate.

That said, a property inspection waiver (PIW) isn't controlled by the lender...it's a finding on the automated underwriting system (AUS). The parameters of your loan situation dictate whether or not you'd be eligible. I wouldn't count on it because they aren't incredibly common...but they do happen. That said, even if you pay a $500 appraisal fee (which is a high estimate), you'll still be ahead if you can recoup those costs relatively quickly.

After being in this gig for 20+ years, saying you have X for a rate is really neat at a party but the fact remains, it's more about your planning and execution than it is about what rate you have.

Your overall financial picture should be taken into account but there are so many knuckleheads in this industry who simply want you to refi because it pays them that you don't always get the straight scoop. Find someone you trust, talk about longer term strategies and you'll be able to discern if it makes sense.

Also, there's talk that the 10-year treasury could drop well below 1%...which makes what we are seeing now for rates, high...if you can believe that.
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
when you say no cost, what does that mean exactly? What is the incentive to the bank to offer it?

And if you refinance a 30 year loan at the 30 year rate again, are you paying that over 30 years or over the 27 years you have remaining on your original loan? Probably dumb questions but I know almost nothing about this topic.


No cost means their cost is being built into the rate...either in the service release premium they are being paid to originate and sell the loan or they are valuing the servicing of the loan when they service it after selling it on the secondary market. In any case, nothing is for free. :)

You can ask for your rate to be amortized over 27 years. Some companies will allow it...but I wouldn't. I'd do what others have suggested...take the 30 and pay aggressively, thus effectively reducing your interest paid and lower your rate at the same time.
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
That would cost the banks a lot of money. Ain't gonna happen.

Lol...has nothing to do with banks. I get a chuckle out of these statements. The GSE's are in charge...and if i am right, FNMA wrote a check for $18+ billion last year to the government. Don't get me wrong, banks make money...but mortgage departments aren't the cash cow they used to be and MANY lose money in mortgage. It's a loss leader for many.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: 1100011CS

Gunnerclone

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2010
69,080
69,107
113
DSM
Lol...has nothing to do with banks. I get a chuckle out of these statements. The GSE's are in charge...and if i am right, FNMA wrote a check for $18+ billion last year to the government. Don't get me wrong, banks make money...but mortgage departments aren't the cash cow they used to be and MANY lose money in mortgage. It's a loss leader for many.

Bro good stuff, you’re like a not Dooshy capitalcityguy.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: Doc and 1100011CS

cyfan92

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2011
7,387
11,756
113
Augusta National Golf Club
It could work to your advantage to get a new appraisal. Depending on your loan to value (LTV), an increase in value could diminish your need for PMI or remove a loan level price adjustment and get you a better rate.

That said, a property inspection waiver (PIW) isn't controlled by the lender...it's a finding on the automated underwriting system (AUS). The parameters of your loan situation dictate whether or not you'd be eligible. I wouldn't count on it because they aren't incredibly common...but they do happen. That said, even if you pay a $500 appraisal fee (which is a high estimate), you'll still be ahead if you can recoup those costs relatively quickly.

After being in this gig for 20+ years, saying you have X for a rate is really neat at a party but the fact remains, it's more about your planning and execution than it is about what rate you have.

Your overall financial picture should be taken into account but there are so many knuckleheads in this industry who simply want you to refi because it pays them that you don't always get the straight scoop. Find someone you trust, talk about longer term strategies and you'll be able to discern if it makes sense.

Also, there's talk that the 10-year treasury could drop well below 1%...which makes what we are seeing now for rates, high...if you can believe that.


I totally agree on rates. 10 year german bonds are -0.54. Japan 10yr bonds are -0.2. We are screaming too high. Just want to get all of my ducks lined up so I can jump on the time I feel best
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
I totally agree on rates. 10 year german bonds are -0.54. Japan 10yr bonds are -0.2. We are screaming too high. Just want to get all of my ducks lined up so I can jump on the time I feel best

yeah, I was just in a meeting on Monday and it was actually discussed that the 10 year could hit 0. It's difficult for me to even type that...that could mean 15-year rates at 1.5%...30 in the low 2's...wtf, man, it would be a mad house.

Whatever...I've learned that I actually don't know a thing and I'm just hanging on...and that applies to life overall...not just mortgage stuff.
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,387
11,176
113
Lol...has nothing to do with banks. I get a chuckle out of these statements. The GSE's are in charge...and if i am right, FNMA wrote a check for $18+ billion last year to the government. Don't get me wrong, banks make money...but mortgage departments aren't the cash cow they used to be and MANY lose money in mortgage. It's a loss leader for many.

Fannie Mae and the people buying the loans are the ones who write the rules, along with the big banks.

Speaking of which, has the cave disappeared recently or did I just get lost?
 
  • Funny
Reactions: CyDude16

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
25,027
37,128
113
Waukee
yeah, I was just in a meeting on Monday and it was actually discussed that the 10 year could hit 0. It's difficult for me to even type that...that could mean 15-year rates at 1.5%...30 in the low 2's...wtf, man, it would be a mad house.

Whatever...I've learned that I actually don't know a thing and I'm just hanging on...and that applies to life overall...not just mortgage stuff.

Go economy. Please, go! Why won't you go!?!
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Gossamer

chadly82

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 10, 2009
5,068
3,687
113
A 30 year is almost all interest early on so that difference can be large. That said I think I'm going to get a 30 year and then make a large principle payment when our current home sells. That will cut it down to about 15 years.
You should look into the lender to see if they can just do a recast possibly
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
Fannie Mae and the people buying the loans are the ones who write the rules, along with the big banks.

Speaking of which, has the cave disappeared recently or did I just get lost?

Depending on which rules you are referring to, you are both correct and incorrect. FHFA, the GSE's, CFPB...they're all incestuous with one another...and big banks have become the enemy...which is why some of the aforementioned even exists.

Suffice it to say that none of US are making decisions...merely along for the ride. :) But I feel better knowing that all the entities are looking out for us. :rolleyes:
 

Gossamer

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,621
1,564
113
You should look into the lender to see if they can just do a recast possibly

Recasting is weird to me...you will pay a fee to do it (most charge it) and you can accomplish the same thing on your own...to a large extent. IDK...to each their own.