Journal Study: Transwomen and Sport Competition.

[Go2Guy]

The Abstract from Journal of Medical Ethics concludes Transwomen, with the Int Olympic Org guidelines of permissible Testosterone levels (<10 nmol / liter), have an unfair advantage and suggest male / female categories be reconsidered.
We are 1-yr away from the Olympics in Tokyo and I'm not confident the IOC & Science will have an agreeable level of permissible Testosterone levels by then, but something has to be in place and some standard must be adopted, realizing the science & techniques will change with time.

PS: I didn't want direct quotes for concern about their copyright and I didn't read article because it costs $37 for a pdf. But I feel this topic is going to be very controversial and all sport (High School + College) probably will depend on the IOC + Science to initiate standards and categories.

https://jme.bmj.com/content/45/6/395

 

[ISUTex]

Science? A male is a male, whether or not they cut their penis off. They can change their name, dress female, whatever. It's a free country. However, they're still a male, and shouldn't be allowed in female competition. Otherwise, sooner or later, "women's" sports will be nothing but dudes.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Science? A male is a male, whether or not they cut their penis off. They can change their name, dress female, whatever. It's a free country. However, they're still a male, and shouldn't be allowed in female competition. Otherwise, sooner or later, "women's" sports will be nothing but dudes.

Ala east german "women's" swim team...

 

[mj4cy]

Science? A male is a male, whether or not they cut their penis off. They can change their name, dress female, whatever. It's a free country. However, they're still a male, and shouldn't be allowed in female competition. Otherwise, sooner or later, "women's" sports will be nothing but dudes.

Exactly. I'm all for people expressing themselves however they see fit. More power to you. However they can't change their chromosomes.

 

[Dandy]

In before this is moved to the cave...

 

[Macloney]

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I saw an interesting proposal that new trans athlete divisions be created.

I like it.

 

[Go2Guy]

Exactly. I'm all for people expressing themselves however they see fit. More power to you. However they can't change their chromosomes.

Yes, I agree. However, this subject changing the landscape of sport competition and it's already started at all levels; HS, College and Olympics.
This will be a challenging issue going forward, and it might just have to come down to determining which acceptable level of hormone concentration allows a trans-athlete to compete.
Either that, or an outright statement that one's chromosomes are the final verdict - but it doesn't appear the IOC is going that route.

A parallel story involves the S African 800m runner - Semenya.. She was born female, but developed testicles (I'm not sure if she is "clinically' a hermaphrodite ), and has frequently tested with exceptionally high testosterone levels. 8 years ago, I think she was banned, but allowed to take female hormones to reduced testosterone, then allowed to compete and medal at 2016 Oly. Now, it was recently announced she is banned (again). I feel for her, because it's no fault of her, but science & Olympics can't decide how to regulate, or determine gender competition.

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/07/31/caster-semenya-barred-from-800-world-championships-by-swiss-court/1875957001/[/URL]

 

[Go2Guy]

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I saw an interesting proposal that new trans athlete divisions be created.

I like it.

It's another option and probably what many consider is fair. But imagine implementing at the College level; will there be (4) classifications of competition: Men, Women + (2) trans ??
It's getting complicated.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I saw an interesting proposal that new trans athlete divisions be created.

I like it.

Male, Female and Other Divisions. So easy it will never happen.

 

[SpokaneCY]

It's another option and probably what many consider is fair. But imagine implementing at the College level; will there be (4) classifications of competition: Men, Women + (2) trans ??
It's getting complicated.

I'm all for inclusion, but at some point the lengths we go to accommodate seems ridiculous...

Have you heard about the pedophile in Vancouver BC suing a bunch of clinicians? He's trans - says he's a woman - then goes to these salons and demands they wax his frank and beans. When they don't he refers them to the BC human rights tribunal and they just held a hearing....

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/c...er-in-her-bid-to-have-her-male-genitals-waxed

https://business.financialpost.com/...ibunals-can-undermine-those-they-should-serve

 

[Macloney]

It's another option and probably what many consider is fair. But imagine implementing at the College level; will there be (4) classifications of competition: Men, Women + (2) trans ??
It's getting complicated.

Good point. It is a very complicated issue.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Good point. It is a very complicated issue.

It's the politics being injected that make it complicated... Reminds me of the Jason Bateman movie where he enters the children's spelling bee on a technicality just because he could.

 

[Cymon]

They will have to start a 3rd category for competition. Just waiting for a man to say he identifies as a woman to have easier access for small business loans or even being placed in a female prison.

 

[CascadeClone]

They will have to start a 3rd category for competition. Just waiting for a man to say he identifies as a woman to have easier access for small business loans or even being placed in a female prison.

The prison thing has happened in the UK already. Read the story, it is like the poster child for what NOT to do.
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ho-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life>

As far as the SBA, I never thought of that. Many US government contracts give special preference to small, women-owned, minority-owned, veteran-owned etc. How far does someone need to go in order to get some serious $$ out of the government? How mad does a born female get if a trans-female beats her out on a $10M government contract? That's a different kind of competition than a track meet, testosterone doesn't work there...

I think it is going to take society a while to sort this out, with compassion and fairness and some level of consensus.

 

[boone7247]

I will be the *******. For 99.94% of the population, this is figured out at birth. For the remainder, you are SOL and will need to compete against the men. Which for the entire population of the earth is about 4.5m people worldwide.

I am all for people being who they want to be, but I am sorry if you are a man and attempt to compete against women in sports that is pathetic. And shouldn't be condoned at all, regardless of feelings.

For the girl from SA, this should have been figured out before she ever competed against women. It isn't necessarily fair for her, but it definitely isn't fair for the women that have had to compete with her and those that were not able to compete at all because of her. If they want to start a non-XX/XY Olympics that is fine. But until then, you have to compete against the men.