Reclassifying 4A football

[clonedude]

I know for a fact that Xavier recruits for basketball. I don't know for sure about football, but I'd guess if they do it for basketball they probably do it for football.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

But why should they volunteer to play in a class they’re too small to belong in? That’s my question - all the people saying Xavier “dropped” to 3A or “should have stayed in 4A” ... just because they agreed to play 4A as a condition of their conference membership, which doesn’t exist any more? Pella won back-to-back 3A championships, why isn’t anybody saying they should volunteer to play 4A? Harlan had a long run of success several years back, did anyone say the only fair thing for them to do was to volunteer to play up? Why is it just the private schools that are supposed to move up?

And again, a private school multiplier won’t fix the problem. Des Moines Lincoln or North or Mason City or Waterloo East aren’t going to get any more competitive because Xavier has to play 4A. Wahlert can’t hardly get to a winning record in 3A, and their roster numbers (Assumption’s, too) are in the 30s ... and you think they should have to play 4A? Like I said, there’s way more factors involved here, and simply saying “make it tougher for the private schools” isn’t the answer. Perhaps it’s part of the answer, but it’s not the only answer.

Pella is not a private school, and for the private schools that are struggling in their current class, I would guess they need to add more money to their recruiting budget.

 

[Dr.bannedman]

Die.

are u wanting me 2 die for asking why they dont split?

 

[mramseyISU]

I’ve always thought something along these lines could be part of the solution. There’s always a problem with a school getting moved up right when a particularly successful, athletic senior class graduates (or the opposite, if a bunch of new studs joins the varsity just as a team gets moved down) but maybe spreading out the criteria for relegation over three seasons or something might help.

I think you’re right about having it stretched out longer than one year. I’m thinking rolling 2 year overall record would be about right.

 

[ISUTex]

What do you all think will happen when Hoover/East/North/Roosevelt/Lincoln go and play a Pella or a Norwalk, or a Grinnell?

Instead of 60-0 it will be 40-0 every week. That'll fix it.

 

[CycloneVet]

What do you all think will happen when Hoover/East/North/Roosevelt/Lincoln go and play a Pella or a Norwalk, or a Grinnell?

Instead of 60-0 it will be 40-0 every week. That'll fix it.

Just like when Waterloo East dropped to 3a. They still sucked. Some schools will suck in football, it’s the way it’s always been.

 

[SoapyCy]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to try something for 2 years and see how it goes. If it sucks just go back to the status quo. Everyone thinks the kinks have to be ironed out before anything changes... Just do it and go see...

 

[khardbored]

here is the top 96 of 364 schools fyi.
midsize schools that are really running up the chart in the past 10 years are: Norwalk, DCG, Carlise, Bondurant, Ballard, ADM, Gilbert and NorthPolk.

View attachment 65245

I didn't relaize there was such a large gap between Valley (2,200) and Hoover (800). Yikes.

 

[WooBadger18]

Competing in football is the problem, when the metro schools have not beaten a suburban school in 10 years, you have to wonder if they ever will. They are doing fine competing in the other sports. Allow the five DM district to form a district on their own with Ottumwa, Marshalltown, and Newton and they will be fine. Newton for years played in 4A football, they can compete with the DM schools.

They used to have that in the CIML metro, until the suburbs threw a fit because it was harder for them to go to state then a metro school. So they had to blow the whole thing up.

I’m all for some sort of relegation like European soccer where if you win you move up and if you lose you go down. It’ll never happen but all those other factors like socio-economic considerations don’t matter. You are either competitive or you move until you are. Unless you’re the very best team or very worst team in the state eventually you will settle in to where you need to be.

The issue with relegation is it can destroy rivalries. I’m a dmps grad, but I liked that the metro schools had been playing each other for decades (and in some cases I think over a century). Relegation could get rid of it.

 

[AuH2O]

Johnston may have to do a split in the near future as well.

It sounds like the elementary ages have some massive classes in Johnston. A split seems like its going to need to happen.

 

[mdk2isu]

It sounds like the elementary ages have some massive classes in Johnston. A split seems like its going to need to happen.

The thing with Johnston though, there is basically no room left for the city to grow. Urbandale to the south, Grimes to the west, DM/Ankeny/Polk City to the east. If they split now, you will go from one good sized 4A school to two average (at best) sized 3A schools. And it’s not like Johnston is some athletic power across the board.

 

[theshadow]

The issue with relegation is it can destroy rivalries. I’m a dmps grad, but I liked that the metro schools had been playing each other for decades (and in some cases I think over a century). Relegation could get rid of it.

Relegation wouldn't matter as much as how many teams are in each district. There are plenty of inter-class traditional/rivalry games being played already.

 

[BCClone]

I’ve always thought something along these lines could be part of the solution. There’s always a problem with a school getting moved up right when a particularly successful, athletic senior class graduates (or the opposite, if a bunch of new studs joins the varsity just as a team gets moved down) but maybe spreading out the criteria for relegation over three seasons or something might help.

I have seen several schools have a small class that counts the first year and then it graduates and the school would bounce up decently in the class above if they happened to reclassify yearly and they make a deep run in the playoffs, the following year they reclassify and while still decent, are a 6-3 non qualifier area team.

 

[BCClone]

You'll never find me defending Xavier, but I don't think they had a choice in dropping to 3A, it all goes by enrollment, correct?

Your point is still a good one though. Their games would be so boring if you were a fan... they destroy everyone by 30 or more.... it's not even a contest.

You can petition to go/stay up a class.

 

[HandSanitizer]

I didn't relaize there was such a large gap between Valley (2,200) and Hoover (800). Yikes.

Exactly. I think a really good start would be to look at similar sized states for reference. Look at the Kansas and Arkansas highschool atheletic unions. See what they do and go with that.
Kansas HS football classifications. Their enrollment ranges are a lot closer. 32 teams in Class's 4, 5 and 6A
http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Football/PDF/FootballClassifications-Alpha2017.pdf

For their main sports they have 6 classes. keeps the schools closer in size.
http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/General/Classifications.cfm

Arkansas has too many classes IMO.

I don't like the argument some people make about more classes equal more time and money, when Iowa is THE ONLY state with two separate High School Athletic unions. Talk about duplicating time and money.

I feel the socioeconomic classification idea is just opening a can of worms. maybe that is just me.

 

[BCClone]

Exactly. I think a really good start would be to look at similar sized states for reference. Look at the Kansas and Arkansas highschool atheletic unions. See what they do and go with that.
Kansas HS football classifications. Their enrollment ranges are a lot closer. 32 teams in Class's 4, 5 and 6A
http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Football/PDF/FootballClassifications-Alpha2017.pdf

For their main sports they have 6 classes. keeps the schools closer in size.
http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/General/Classifications.cfm

Arkansas has too many classes IMO.

I don't like the argument some people make about more classes equal more time and money, when Iowa is THE ONLY state with two separate High School Athletic unions. Talk about duplicating time and money.

I feel the socioeconomic classification idea is just opening a can of worms. maybe that is just me.

Pretty sure Iowa will have split athletic unions at least until the boys association stops doing really stupid stuff. Girls give out more but charge members less (and they don’t have the big money makers of football and state wrestling)

 

[theshadow]

Girls give out more but charge members less

The IHSAA member fee for schools is $0, down from $2/year for the previous 100+ years.

 

[BCClone]

The IHSAA member fee for schools is $0, down from $2/year for the previous 100+ years.

How much for each sport?

 

[JD720]

The thing with Johnston though, there is basically no room left for the city to grow. Urbandale to the south, Grimes to the west, DM/Ankeny/Polk City to the east. If they split now, you will go from one good sized 4A school to two average (at best) sized 3A schools. And it’s not like Johnston is some athletic power across the board.

They have 1682 now. If they split in half Both schools would be about 40th in enrollment and still in 4a. I don’t think they need to split now, but probably should look at it if they keep growing.

Also school districts have different maps than cities. Johnston schools district has a fair amount of room to grow, especially north of grimes.

https://www.johnstoncsd.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/FINAL_Map_JCSD_2014_WebOptimized.pdf

 

[kcdc4isu]

They have 1682 now. If they split in half Both schools would be about 40th in enrollment and still in 4a. I don’t think they need to split now, but probably should look at it if they keep growing.

Also school districts have different maps than cities. Johnston schools district has a fair amount of room to grow, especially north of grimes.

https://www.johnstoncsd.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/FINAL_Map_JCSD_2014_WebOptimized.pdf

This is a important point as the Waukee district has quite a large number of students who live in West Des Moines.