Level the playing field in HS athletics

[mdk2isu]

Its called moving for a better job. Do you really think those people on the South and East side of DM, are moving out to Waukee for the schools. Most are people from rural areas that have taken a new job in the metro, and they want to live in the new parts of the metro.
The last census showed this, the population of Iowa has increased very little from outside the state, its people leaving the rural areas and moving to the cities. Only been happening for the last hundred years or so.
No one is saying these kids are getting thousands of dollars to go to a private school, but when was the last time you heard of a public school coach talking to another public school player about transferring to their school. Outside of Clear Creek and their softball program, it doesn't happen in public schools. But I have witnessed private school coaches talking to my players about transferring and have had others tell me its happening. At all of them, no clue, at Holy Trinity down here in SE Iowa. Yep.

Ahh, and the truth comes out. One school in your area may recruit and you paint all private schools with the broad brush that they must too.

 

[VeloClone]

So would they have to redouble the multiplier if it was an all boys private school since they theoretically would have twice the potential football players per student of a co-ed school?

(Yes, I know that girls can and very rarely do play HS football.)

 

[VeloClone]

@SEIOWA CLONE what high school sport do you coach?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Ahh, and the truth comes out. One school in your area may recruit and you paint all private schools with the broad brush that they must too.

So if you are not effected one way or the other, why allow this to continue to happen. I am not the only one saying it is, many others have said the same thing.
I want to even up the advantage of private schools vs public schools, as a public school teacher I think this is important for my students and athletes.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

@SEIOWA CLONE what high school sport do you coach?

A public school in SE Iowa. Enough said.

 

[mdk2isu]

@SEIOWA CLONE what high school sport do you coach?

Just a guess from the many posts from him about Holy Trinity and their Volleyball program and how others in the area cant compete, I'm guessing Volleyball. Just putting the pieces together.

 

[mdk2isu]

So if you are not effected one way or the other, why allow this to continue to happen. I am not the only one saying it is, many others have said the same thing.
I want to even up the advantage of private schools vs public schools, as a public school teacher I think this is important for my students and athletes.

Again, I have no say in the matter, so I'm not allowing anything to continue to happen. I don't have the power to change it.

I just happen to believe the 'advantage' you think is there really isn't as great as you think it is. And I'd venture to guess that there are some public schools that 'recruit' just as much as the private ones.

 

[tigershoops31]

No one is saying these kids are getting thousands of dollars to go to a private school, but when was the last time you heard of a public school coach talking to another public school player about transferring to their school. Outside of Clear Creek and their softball program, it doesn't happen in public schools.

It does occur in public schools as well, I've seen it happen myself. I'm not going to say that private schools may not have some small built in advantages in athletics. To me though, if you are going to do something, the bigger issue would be trying to provide some resources to help these schools that historically are not even able to compete begin to be able to build somewhat competitive programs starting with their youth programs.

It's not like using a multiplier is going to have kids saying "You know what? I think I'll stay at my metro school instead of going to Dowling to play football now!". These schools need to develop some pride in their programs, and it's a chicken or egg problem with players and success. At some point you've got to win some games for players to take pride in their program, but you've got to have some players (and some pride) to win some games. When you've had neither in forever, you've got to start somewhere if you want to be competitive down the road.

 

[isucy86]

The same issue would happen as it does in Europe. The same teams win, get bumped up, lose, get bumped down. The only reason it sticks in Europe is because teams get increased funding for playing in the higher tier. I don't think the 3A schools are gonna be happy to win a state championship, get bumped up to 4A and then get their *** handed to them.

I think relegation down would work. There is no need to bump the top 3A schools up to 4A. But why not drop x number of 4A schools down to 3A. If those 4A schools finish top x in 3A playoffs they would go back up to 4A. Could use the same premise for all classes.

The football issue is hard to fix because the top 4-8 schools in 4A are 3-4 touchdowns better than the 16th best team.

 

[IASTATE07]

Here's the deal. No one on CF has provided one piece of evidence other than "I heard it" or "I saw it". Give us some tangible, proven, documented evidence of widespread athletic recruiting in Iowa high schools and I'll believe you. Because guess what, people make **** up. A business owner told me the city shut him down because they didn't like him fighting with them at council meetings. I could run around saying that, or, like I did, researched it and realized he never paid his license and refused to let the electrical inspector in. My point is what people tell you and what the truth is are not the same thing.

Smack dab in the middle of the East Marshall district website is an open enrollment form. I hope all of you worried about private schools recruiting are just as mad about this - because statistics say East Marshall has fewer advanced placement classes and fewer extracurriculars than Marshalltown. Might they be *recruiting* people who want out of Marshalltown?

No you wouldn't.

It's hilarious you want documented evidence. That's not how any of that works.

 

[isucy86]

Just bothers me a small town can have a once in a generation class and the Xavier's Assumption's and Wahlert's recruit you out of the game. 6 of 8 finalists in volleyball were private schools-

Some of this is human nature. Elite HS kids want to compete on the highest stage (aka state tournaments) and they also want to compete against the best players in practice and games. No different than college sports- that's why Duke & Kentucky do well in hoops and Bama & Clemson in football. Steel sharpens steel.

In Dubuque- the Carter girl plays VB at Wahlert and the son played at Senior. IMO coaching and roster talent are what kids are looking for.

 

[IASTATE07]

You are claiming that cheating by private high schools is so widespread and egregious that many random people here are aware of its existence yet the people who enforce rules are either so ignorant they don't see it or are themselves complicit in the cheating.

I've claimed this?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

You are claiming that cheating by private high schools is so widespread and egregious that many random people here are aware of its existence yet the people who enforce rules are either so ignorant they don't see it or are themselves complicit in the cheating.

Furthermore, assuming not everyone "approached" by a private school decides to go there, you'd think those players/families would immediately contact their school or the ISHSL to document the violation. After all, why would they let potential cheaters go free assuming they'll need to compete against them.

Me thinks many of you confuse marketing with recruiting and overestimate the value the vast majority of studnets and donors place on athletic performance.

Well, me thinks that the numbers of students being recruited does not really matter, if its ONE it too many. All public schools have open enrollment forms on their website. Open enrollment is a state law. But its a passive form of reaching out to the kids, not an active one, like when a coach or parent approaches a student and "wants to talk about that athlete attending their school." See the difference here. They do not have to ELITE athletes, many are not, but many times they are the best one at that sport in the smaller schools.

We can never stop the cheating from occurring, the FBI is not going to be wiretapping private schools, but we can even up the playing field, just like Illinois has and make them play up a class from what their enrollment dictates.
If you are already in the largest class, great for you, you get a pass, but we could damn well make sure that Carrol Kuemper, Davenport Assumption, IC Regina and Holy Trinity and the rest play a class higher than they currently are.
https://www.dailyiowegian.com/sport...cle_29b47fbe-7878-11e7-8d69-ff24c32ddb11.html
https://www.corydontimes.com/news/s...cle_4a039162-3e95-11e9-824a-67f95b4e47af.html

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Well, me thinks that the numbers of students being recruited does not really matter, if its ONE it too many. All public schools have open enrollment forms on their website. Open enrollment is a state law. But its a passive form of reaching out to the kids, not an active one, like when a coach or parent approaches a student and "wants to talk about that athlete attending their school." See the difference here. They do not have to ELITE athletes, many are not, but many times they are the best one at that sport in the smaller schools.

We can never stop the cheating from occurring, the FBI is not going to be wiretapping private schools, but we can even up the playing field, just like Illinois has and make them play up a class from what their enrollment dictates.
If you are already in the largest class, great for you, you get a pass, but we could damn well make sure that Carrol Kuemper, Davenport Assumption, IC Regina and Holy Trinity and the rest play a class higher than they currently are.
https://www.dailyiowegian.com/sport...cle_29b47fbe-7878-11e7-8d69-ff24c32ddb11.html
https://www.corydontimes.com/news/s...cle_4a039162-3e95-11e9-824a-67f95b4e47af.html

My kids go to Des Moines Christian and three years ago East Marshall knocked our boys out of the district finals in basketball. Talking to some of East Marshalls fans they said their best players came from Grinnell. I asked why he said there was some crappy situation going on in Grinnell and the kids ended up enrolling there. Now, in your mind that is just fine because of open enrollment....but it is considered cheating if a DMC coach knowing the situation in Grinnell offered those same players tuition assistance to come to DMC?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

My kids go to Des Moines Christian and three years ago East Marshall knocked our boys out of the district finals in basketball. Talking to some of East Marshalls fans they said their best players came from Grinnell. I asked why he said there was some crappy situation going on in Grinnell and the kids ended up enrolling there. Now, in your mind that is just fine because of open enrollment....but it is considered cheating if a DMC coach knowing the situation in Grinnell offered those same players tuition assistance to come to DMC?

DSC beds count is 223 students they are number 144 in the state, East Marshall LeGrand is 199 at 167 students. Totally different, you got beat by a smaller team.
Do you know that the E. Marshall coached contacted the kids from Grinnell and encouraged them transfer to LeGrand? If he did it was illegal, much like what the private schools are doing.

 

[VeloClone]

DSC beds count is 223 students they are number 144 in the state, East Marshall LeGrand is 199 at 167 students. Totally different, you got beat by a smaller team.
Do you know that the E. Marshall coached contacted the kids from Grinnell and encouraged them transfer to LeGrand? If he did it was illegal, much like what the private schools are doing.

Here is SEIOWA CLONE and the giant paintbrush he is painting with.

 

[BCClone]

That is just sad. I have felt like a terrible father the couple of occasions that my wife and I weren't both at all of the conferences (she had to go alone a couple of times in 9 years and counting). The fact that one of my kids gets straight As isn't even an excuse to not go. Teaching kids is a partnership, not the sole responsibility of the teachers.

I stopped going with the wife because the whole conference was like I wasn’t even in the room. Any data they would just push and say you guys know this stuff and then ramble onto a tangent. Became a shop talk between the teacher and my wife.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

DSC beds count is 223 students they are number 144 in the state, East Marshall LeGrand is 199 at 167 students. Totally different, you got beat by a smaller team.
Do you know that the E. Marshall coached contacted the kids from Grinnell and encouraged them transfer to LeGrand? If he did it was illegal, much like what the private schools are doing.

Totally different? That was the 2A district final. East Marshall wasn't 2A? Now you are being ridiculous. And no, I don't know anything, I was just stating what was said and applying it to this discussion. And with your last statement......what proof do you have DMC is cheating?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

You guys are right, I have been wrong, the reason that the private schools are doing so well is superior coaching, superior athletes and just an overall better system. No private school in the state of Iowa has EVER recruited an athlete from a public school. They all just decided to pay to go there on their own, by their own free will, without encouragement from the private school.

There you go, its all a bunch of ****, but you win.

 

[cyfanatic13]

You guys are right, I have been wrong, the reason that the private schools are doing so well is superior coaching, superior athletes and just an overall better system. No private school in the state of Iowa has EVER recruited an athlete from a public school. They all just decided to pay to go there on their own, by their own free will, without encouragement from the private school.

There you go, its all a bunch of ****, but you win.

I'm #TeamPublicSchools but pouting like this isn't the way to go