KidSilverhair
Well-Known Member
I happen to know Tom Keating. He's as far from crooked as they come. There are a lot of issues with the IAHSAA ... but Keating tilting things toward parochial schools isn't going to be one of them.
Level the playing field in HS athletics
- Thread starter mb7299
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I happen to know Tom Keating. He's as far from crooked as they come. There are a lot of issues with the IAHSAA ... but Keating tilting things toward parochial schools isn't going to be one of them.
KidSilverhair
Well-Known Member
The competitive problems between athletic programs in Iowa is complicated, and you can't solve it with easy fixes.
1) The multiplier for private schools might be part of the solution, but people saying "We need to use one like Illinois has!" don't know the whole story. Illinois applies the multiplier to "non-boundary" school districts, because their public schools restrict students to attending only the district they live in. ALL of Iowa's school districts are "non-boundary," as open-enrollment is allowed for everybody. (I know, the receiving school has to approve the request and all, but in theory a student in Iowa can attend any district they want to, whether they live in it or not.) Also, how would this do anything about the dominance of a school like Dowling? There isn't any 5A for them to be moved up to ...
2) Having a "private school only" class, even for playoffs, would be a disaster. You really want to see Dowling playing Des Moines Catholic? Or Mason City Newman playing Sioux City Heelan? The problems we're seeing across the board would be magnified ... but I suppose many people wouldn't give a rip, if it was just the private schools dealing with it.
3) I think the idea of relegation is intriguing ... for football, anyway, schools that overperform in a two-year districting cycle would get bumped up, with lesser performing schools being moved down. That has promise (the earlier comment about Waterloo East being a 2A school with a huge enrollment ... well, they don't play football at a 4A or 3A level, so that probably wouldn't be a problem). This could have problems with schools having a particularly good group of athletes in one graduating class finding themselves moved up just as those studs leave school, but that kind of thing is just going to happen.
4) Believe it or not, things change over the course of seasons. Regina as the bully of 1A? They didn't even make the playoffs in football last year, and their playing numbers have been in free-fall. I don't know if they'll be in the playoff mix this year, either. Assumption's football numbers have been crashing as well - the people who automatically think they should be 4A are a couple of years out of date. Wahlert, same deal.
How do you address the issue of participation at these urban schools? That's really the problem - they have enrollments among the largest in the state, but they can't get kids to play sports and compete at the level of suburban schools of the same size. When that continues year after year, it just gets worse and worse as kids turn away from unsuccessful sports in those urban schools. Finding a way to use factors other than just enrollment (free and reduced lunch percentage, or some other socioeconomic metric) to classify sports programs might be one path for improvement.
I don't have a quick answer. Nobody does. But I think this deserves discussion and thought and new ideas.
1) The multiplier for private schools might be part of the solution, but people saying "We need to use one like Illinois has!" don't know the whole story. Illinois applies the multiplier to "non-boundary" school districts, because their public schools restrict students to attending only the district they live in. ALL of Iowa's school districts are "non-boundary," as open-enrollment is allowed for everybody. (I know, the receiving school has to approve the request and all, but in theory a student in Iowa can attend any district they want to, whether they live in it or not.) Also, how would this do anything about the dominance of a school like Dowling? There isn't any 5A for them to be moved up to ...
2) Having a "private school only" class, even for playoffs, would be a disaster. You really want to see Dowling playing Des Moines Catholic? Or Mason City Newman playing Sioux City Heelan? The problems we're seeing across the board would be magnified ... but I suppose many people wouldn't give a rip, if it was just the private schools dealing with it.
3) I think the idea of relegation is intriguing ... for football, anyway, schools that overperform in a two-year districting cycle would get bumped up, with lesser performing schools being moved down. That has promise (the earlier comment about Waterloo East being a 2A school with a huge enrollment ... well, they don't play football at a 4A or 3A level, so that probably wouldn't be a problem). This could have problems with schools having a particularly good group of athletes in one graduating class finding themselves moved up just as those studs leave school, but that kind of thing is just going to happen.
4) Believe it or not, things change over the course of seasons. Regina as the bully of 1A? They didn't even make the playoffs in football last year, and their playing numbers have been in free-fall. I don't know if they'll be in the playoff mix this year, either. Assumption's football numbers have been crashing as well - the people who automatically think they should be 4A are a couple of years out of date. Wahlert, same deal.
How do you address the issue of participation at these urban schools? That's really the problem - they have enrollments among the largest in the state, but they can't get kids to play sports and compete at the level of suburban schools of the same size. When that continues year after year, it just gets worse and worse as kids turn away from unsuccessful sports in those urban schools. Finding a way to use factors other than just enrollment (free and reduced lunch percentage, or some other socioeconomic metric) to classify sports programs might be one path for improvement.
I don't have a quick answer. Nobody does. But I think this deserves discussion and thought and new ideas.
Doesn't have anything to do with tilting things toward parochial schools....they already are tilted toward parochial schools! The problem here is whether or not a guy that just came from one will realize it and act accordingly.
Most think he will not.
KidSilverhair
Well-Known Member
I think the notion that the IAHSAA is tilted toward parochial schools is an opinion, not fact. I agree the relative dominance of private schools in several sports is an issue (volleyball, for one, but that's not even the IAHSAA's jurisdiction!). Moving all the private schools out of competition with public schools isn't going to make the Des Moines urban schools competitive again.
I believe there is recruitment going on with some (not all) private schools in the state. Thing is, though, Iowa has open enrollment ... public schools can recruit, too. It's not just a private school issue. Do private school students have more advantages than many public school students? Yes, that's obvious ... but I wouldn't say kids at, say, Xavier or Wahlert or Waterloo Columbus are in any better academic or athletic situations (financially) than Ankeny Centennial or Waukee or maybe Lewis Central (I don't know much about schools on the west side of the state, honestly).
I believe there is recruitment going on with some (not all) private schools in the state. Thing is, though, Iowa has open enrollment ... public schools can recruit, too. It's not just a private school issue. Do private school students have more advantages than many public school students? Yes, that's obvious ... but I wouldn't say kids at, say, Xavier or Wahlert or Waterloo Columbus are in any better academic or athletic situations (financially) than Ankeny Centennial or Waukee or maybe Lewis Central (I don't know much about schools on the west side of the state, honestly).
Here is an article from last summer,
After winning six consecutive Class 1A state titles from 2010-2015, Regina has been defeated in the title game the past two seasons and returns just five full-time starters from last year’s 10-3 team.
How many titles did they win in 2A, quite a few.
Not going to feel to sorry for IC Regina, hell they are the posture child for why the state should have the multiplier.
Is there a rule that if you have 2 high schools you have to have 2 different sports teams?
I know when Ankeny split there was a big worry about their sports performance and I wondered why they just didn't have both schools be one for sports.
Pfft you mean to tell me you didn't send your kid to play in the USSSA 7U world series? You must want him to be a loser the rest of his life.
Yeah I know. It will be a tough first day at school when all of his buddies are wearing their "I participated" Jostens rings and he's sitting there empty handed.
I just know there are serious problems when a supposed 4A school barely has enough kids out to even field a football team. The number of kids supposedly in school is not relevant.
It starts with parents. If you find one or two dads that step up and coach in youth sports - you'll do fine. You don't have to join a club to find success.
Iowa Code allows for the sharing of programs if one school doesn't offer a particular interscholastic activity. However, the governing body (IHSAA or IGHSAU) has the ability to deny such an arrangement if it feels that the arrangement would substantially prejudice the activities of other schools. Substantial prejudice "includes but is not limited to situations where shared interscholastic activities may result in an unfair domination of an interscholastic activity or substantial disruption of activity classifications and management."
I remember when Baseball was a fall sport. Part of the reason some schools close to the metro areas are better is the presence of year round club sports. In western Iowa, most teams go to the Omaha-Council Bluffs metro for games and coaching.
There were three different baseball seasons - spring, summer, and fall. Spring ball ended in 1972, and fall ball ended in 1985. In 1968, Norway won the spring and fall state tournaments, and finished 2nd in the summer tournament.
Or moms....
Having good female role models in their sport can help girls performance and help them to see themselves as athletes. Also one of the best coaches my son had was a woman.
Correct, for years, schools that did not field a football team played fall baseball. Moulton Uduel played it for years. Basically they had two sports, baseball and basketball. Never had a football team nor a track team. After the stopped having fall baseball, they have shared football with Moravia, Centerville and currently with Seymour.
My wife played fall softball all the way through high school. Volleyball did not start as a sport until the early 80's, I believe.
I dont know what the answer is but it must suck for varsity coaches that have invested years into developing kids to have them transfer their Jr/Sr years. On the flip side though you cant blame the kids for trying to improve their situation. Maybe private schools have to play a class up but that doesnt help the Norths or Hoovers in football. Go to 5 classes maybe?
I see many disagree with this statement. I think what he is saying is that if a school has a need to make changes to, add to, improve or renovate facilities the public school board has access to PPEL to secure funding and also has the opportunity to use local public tax dollars to fund the project by putting it up for bond vote. Private schools (and not all are as wealthy as the Dowlings and Xaviers of the world) do not have any access to these funding streams. I know it is their choice to be students/parents of a private school. They have to live with the consequences also if they can't compete with the other schools athletically, academically or financially. To say that all private schools should be set aside from a conference is a blanket statement; just as saying those that consistently win should be set outside a conference, whether or not they are public or private. Success is success whether it is public or private. There are communities where the public is much more successful than the private.
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