Future Sports at ISU

[Clone83]

Some stats today from the Omaha World-Herald article on Michigan (gated), which is mostly discussion about this issue:

Michigan has joined an elite six, but it still needs to defeat 'titan' Vanderbilt to win the CWS
https://www.omaha.com/sports/plus/m...cle_b350c570-3b3f-5160-becb-72ecd5fed0ab.html

Just a note to be careful how they are defining things above, in analyzing and making comparisons.

Iowa State has “ties to a major conference based mostly in warmer climates,” but that hardly provides an ISU advantage as the far northernmost team. Nebraska, when it was part of the Big 12 was somewhat similarly situated, but not so much as ISU now. Nebraska reached the CWS in 2001, 2002, and 2005.

Wichita State, which the article calls a “program facing similar weather challenges [like Michigan]” ... “hadn't made the title game since the 1993 Wichita State squad” (comparing Michigan to them). Wichita State was part of the Missouri Valley Conference. Creighton was as well, and made the CWS in 1991, a year in which they finished second in the conference to Wichita State, another year in which Wichita State finished second at the CWS.

 

[theshadow]

Wichita State, which the article calls a “program facing similar weather challenges”

I wonder what "weather challenges" the OWH thinks exist for playing baseball in southern Kansas. Tornadoes? Haze from prairie fires?

 

[Clone83]

I wonder what "weather challenges" the OWH thinks exist for playing baseball in southern Kansas. Tornadoes? Haze from prairie fires?

I agree. It’s kind of odd how they are defining things by conference like that ... except in that for most of their readers Nebraska’s classification has changed now that they are in the Big Ten.

 

[CtownCyclone]

I wonder what "weather challenges" the OWH thinks exist for playing baseball in southern Kansas. Tornadoes? Haze from prairie fires?

It's windy as **** there. That's what I got.

 

[2speedy1]

Michigan was the first Big 10 team in 6 years to win a single game in the college world series.

Iowa is the only D1 team left in the state with a baseball program and they can't qualify.

ISU would be cannon fodder for the Texas schools in baseball. If you don't believe me, I'd like to introduce you to reality.

I think a lot of people could have said the same thing about many of the sports at Iowa State, including football for many years, but we still have them. We are a program on the rise in Football. I guess throwing in the towel and giving up is always an option. But I see a lot of excuses here that don't really hold up when you look at them compared to other schools or other sports. Some of you talk like if you don't make the national championship most years then you should not even have the sport, well **** why have any sports then? Or if you aren't making serious revenue then get rid of them, well that gets rid of most of them too.
I know there are reasons, but honestly in the big picture are they good ones? Being one of only a handful of major programs in the country that doesn't have Baseball, seams a bit wrong to me. And all of these excuses seem just that just weak excuses, that are more like giving up, something we could have done in most sports, if you want to take that route, I for one don't.
I do realize there is a struggle with the season timing, something I wish could be adjusted but I just dont know how that can be accomplished. But knowing there are many colleges as far north as we are if not farther that pull it off, it is possible.

So I guess if we go by the reasons here, if the sport doesn't have great attendance we should get rid of it. That gets rid of 3/4 of the sports at ISU.
If it doesn't Make revenue then get rid of it, that gets rid of 90%.
If it hasn't competed for a national championship in the last few years get rid of it, that gets rid of 99%.
If its played outside and the weather is bad get rid of it, that gets rid of all outdoor sports.
If it costs to build or upgrade facilities that aren't part of the football facilities get rid of it, that gets rid of 99% of them.
If it doesnt compete in the top of the Big 12 consistently get rid of it, that gets rid of more than half.

So with what all you say we really shouldn't have any sports.
Then I see someone ask instead of why not, we should say why would we add baseball or any other sport. Simple, the same reasons Iowa State has any and all sports it already/still has.

 

[cyclone13]

To OP: it seems you are really hell-bent on having Baseball back at ISU.
Just wonder whether you understand the concept of resource allocations?
A lot of posters agreed: We don’t have unlimited resources. So we have to be smart in deciding where we need to spend our money on.
Some sports are required for compliance with title IX although they don’t generate money. We have to keep them. Adding baseball will require us to add more sports and spend more money.
How are we going to justify continuously funding baseball?
You keep on attacking posters who are not in favor of brining baseball back but you can only offer one reason why we have to revive it: just because we are one of the few who don’t have it.
So if you use this justification, we’ll just do it for the sake of keeping with the joneses. There is nothing wrong for not having baseball if we can have a healthy Athletic DepT and successful existing programs.
If JP decides that it makes sense to have baseball back, then I will support it, but right now it’s not even in the conversation, so let’s accept it or if you can donate enough money to start and maintain baseball, do it.

 

[drednot57]

I would love to see ice hockey return to varsity status. That's right, return to varsity status. From 1970 to 1979 (8 seasons), the men's ice hockey team was a varsity team that played in the Big 8 conference with OU, KU, Mizzou, NU, and CU. There are championship banners with the old Big 8 logo displayed on the west end of the ice arena affirming that period, and I don't think the Big 8 sponsored club teams. Edit: There was no Frozen Four tournament during that time. I believe the Frozen Four was established in the early 80s.

The Ames/ISU Ice Arena seats about 500, and holds a total of about 625 SRO. Coach Fairman, the men's hockey team head coach and general manager, from what I've heard through rumor, has been pressing for an ISU only hockey arena. What he wants in seating capacity is unknown. I'm thinking that this is laying the groundwork to get the the hockey program elevated to varsity status.

To the best of my knowledge, I think there's enough of a gap between men's and women's scholarships that another women's varsity sport doesn't need to be promoted/created. Even so, the women's program should be promoted along with the men's.

 

[cyclone13]

I have no problem reviving baseball or adding hockey as long as there is justification after thorough analysis instead of just “we don’t have it while the others do”.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

If you are bringing back a men's team sport its hockey over baseball and its not even close.
Costs would be less for hockey, and we would have a great shot at parking it in the Big 10, developing a athletic relationship with that conference which could help should conference realignment put us in a position where we need a home.

 

[2speedy1]

You have to have 14 sports to be a D1 institution.

We've got 6 men's sports. 10 women's sports.

MBB and Football make money. Pointless discussing them.

WBB, Men's and Women's Track, Men's and Women's XC, Men's and Women's Golf, Volleyball, Swimming,
Gymnastics, and Wrestling all make sense because they don't use any additional facilities. These are comparatively cheap sports. That's 13.

That leaves Softball, Women's tennis, and Soccer. They each require their own facilities but already have them. You could cut two of those and I don't think anybody would care. I know that's cold but it's the truth.

What you're talking about is different than eliminating sports. You're talking about bringing one back, that would be an incredibly expensive sport, for no other reason than everybody else does it. Well like my mama said, if everybody else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

And nobody is stopping you from spending 20 million to get it going and another 1 million a year to fund it. Go for it!

I think you were missing my point.
You don't need to be D1 if you don't have any sports. That is only an athletic status. Which if you use all these excuses then we wouldnt have any sports at ISU.
The rest were excuses used for not having baseball, which each can be said for many if not all sports at ISU.
Im not sure what you say about all those sports not using additional facilities, last I checked every single one of the sports you mentioned had their own facility if not multiple. Hell you said mens and womens basketball, have you not seen the facility out west? The golf course? etc.

 

[2speedy1]

I don't think we should add any sports. If we do add sports, it should only be something we can be competitive in. Not one we would be extremely lucky to not get our heads kicked in at, that we don't have a facility for, that would cost a TON of money to get going.

Why would our baseball team do better than our softball team? I see you didn't respond to that.

So using that excuse we should get rid of softball too, and lets look at the production of every sport over the last 10 years if they didnt win the conference at least 50% of the time we should drop them too. Great idea!

 

[theshadow]

I would love to see ice hockey return to varsity status. That's right, return to varsity status. From 1970 to 1979 (8 seasons), the men's ice hockey team was a varsity team that played in the Big 8 conference with OU, KU, Mizzou, NU, and CU. There are championship banners with the old Big 8 logo displayed on the west end of the ice arena affirming that period, and I don't think the Big 8 sponsored club teams.

*The Big 8 didn't sanction/sponsor ice hockey.
*Ice hockey has never been a varsity sport at Iowa State. It's been a club team the whole time.

Any reference to a "Big 8" championship is the result of playing other club teams at schools who were in the conference.

 

[AuH2O]

I think a lot of people could have said the same thing about many of the sports at Iowa State, including football for many years, but we still have them. We are a program on the rise in Football. I guess throwing in the towel and giving up is always an option. But I see a lot of excuses here that don't really hold up when you look at them compared to other schools or other sports. Some of you talk like if you don't make the national championship most years then you should not even have the sport, well **** why have any sports then? Or if you aren't making serious revenue then get rid of them, well that gets rid of most of them too.
I know there are reasons, but honestly in the big picture are they good ones? Being one of only a handful of major programs in the country that doesn't have Baseball, seams a bit wrong to me. And all of these excuses seem just that just weak excuses, that are more like giving up, something we could have done in most sports, if you want to take that route, I for one don't.
I do realize there is a struggle with the season timing, something I wish could be adjusted but I just dont know how that can be accomplished. But knowing there are many colleges as far north as we are if not farther that pull it off, it is possible.

So I guess if we go by the reasons here, if the sport doesn't have great attendance we should get rid of it. That gets rid of 3/4 of the sports at ISU.
If it doesn't Make revenue then get rid of it, that gets rid of 90%.
If it hasn't competed for a national championship in the last few years get rid of it, that gets rid of 99%.
If its played outside and the weather is bad get rid of it, that gets rid of all outdoor sports.
If it costs to build or upgrade facilities that aren't part of the football facilities get rid of it, that gets rid of 99% of them.
If it doesnt compete in the top of the Big 12 consistently get rid of it, that gets rid of more than half.

So with what all you say we really shouldn't have any sports.
Then I see someone ask instead of why not, we should say why would we add baseball or any other sport. Simple, the same reasons Iowa State has any and all sports it already/still has.

It's not that attendance 'wasn't great' when ISU had baseball. It was horrible and embarrassing. Like little league levels. It isn't that it won't make much or any revenue. It will lose money big time. Add in likely additional costs for Title IX compliance, and you've got a big money loser. It isn't that ISU isn't going to fail to compete for CWS or conference titles, it is likely that it is going to be very bad.

I love baseball. My son plays travel ball and we are two of the few people at AHS games that aren't family members of a player. I went to ISU games. At the end of the day you want to spend money that could be used in many ways to put on a sport that nobody at ISU cared about when it was here.

 

[VeloClone]

I would love to see ice hockey return to varsity status. That's right, return to varsity status. From 1970 to 1979 (8 seasons), the men's ice hockey team was a varsity team that played in the Big 8 conference with OU, KU, Mizzou, NU, and CU. There are championship banners with the old Big 8 logo displayed on the west end of the ice arena affirming that period, and I don't think the Big 8 sponsored club teams. Edit: There was no Frozen Four tournament during that time. I believe the Frozen Four was established in the early 80s.

The Ames/ISU Ice Arena seats about 500, and holds a total of about 625 SRO. Coach Fairman, the men's hockey team head coach and general manager, from what I've heard through rumor, has been pressing for an ISU only hockey arena. What he wants in seating capacity is unknown. I'm thinking that this is laying the groundwork to get the the hockey program elevated to varsity status.

To the best of my knowledge, I think there's enough of a gap between men's and women's scholarships that another women's varsity sport doesn't need to be promoted/created. Even so, the women's program should be promoted along with the men's.

Al Murdoch was "laying the groundwork" for varsity hockey and had been for years when I was a student at ISU 30+ years ago.

 

[2speedy1]

Veenker would exist without the golf teams.
MBB makes money, and the Sukup facility would exist with or without WBB.
Hilton would exist with or without Wrestling, Volleyball, WBB, gymnastics, Etc.



I'm not a fan of any of these sports. So sure, they could drop softball and tennis IMO and still be at 14 D1 programs and I'd be perfectly fine with it.

I'm a fan of Football, MBB, and to a very small extent WBB and soccer. If we don't have 14 D1 teams, we'd lose MBB and FB, which are also the only sports that make any money and drive a HUGE percentage of the fan interest. IMO everything should be geared to maximize those sports, because that's what people care about.

You seem interested in spending 10s of millions of dollars to bring back a sport that had roughly 20 people at the games (tops) when we had it here last time for no other reason than everybody else has it. Again, start buying those lottery tickets.

Honestly, I really don't care if they add baseball, hockey or any other sport. The post was more about starting a conversation of some of the rumors over the past few years of different sports, plus some of the more popular sports being added to other programs. The only reason I defended baseball so much was because of the hypocrisy of some of the excuses/reasons for not having/adding it.
Personally I would much rather see every dime and then some spent on athletics spent on what we have too. But over time there have been other rumors and with the ever changing landscape of college sports, you never know what is around the corner, that is all I was getting at, it may be another dropped sport or added one or both.
With more and more schools dropping sports like wrestling and adding other less known sports I just thought it was an interesting topic for the off season. I do realize there is some serious issues with many if not all sport addition considerations but that doesn't mean something won't change in the future. It is doubtful as things stand right now, but a major shake up in the NCAA, or conference could jump start a change in the sports at ISU.
Anyway, it was was just a topic for discussion, some took it as I wanted or thought one or more of these sports should or are coming to ISU. Not at all what I was saying, but me always loving a good debate, ended up playing that part.
Honestly of the list I gave Baseball is probably one of the least likely to come to ISU.
A lot of these sports will never be great at northern schools until they open up some form of summer season, if that ever happens or becomes possible.

Edit: Like this article says if the northern schools band together to form their own league or at least make the NCAA listen with some of these outdoor sports things may change.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidc...sions-would-actually-make-sense/#c5cbca948928

http://baseballnews.com/epitome-of-being-unfair-in-baseball/