Level the playing field in HS athletics

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BillBrasky4Cy

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This is sad. So many kids who have played baseball (or football, basketball, volleyball, etc.) through middle school won’t ever have the chance to play in high school because there are so many kids trying out. Certainly a different problem than city schools have.

Yeah this is hard for my wife and I because we both grew up in rural NW IA and we both played multiple sports.
 

riceville98

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Question, what class size do you see as sustainable for a school? And what kind of help are you suggesting? I went to a school most of my time that we were the big class and had 16.
I think the 1A and 2A schools need the help. What am I suggesting? A) more funding (both academics and sports) and B) Some solution to the private school "recruiting issue". I'd prefer the way TN does it (throw them all in the own class and let them beat on each other) but, I'd settle for a multiplier like IL has

and before someone says "there are not enough schools for a class P" stop with that. There are plenty of them
 
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riceville98

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It is a complex issue we are over 50% hispanic in our high school. The numbers of students who can go out for a sport is small. We should be 1A based on numbers who play but we are 3A and have to go to Assumption and play someone who should be 4A.

This is exactly why something has to change!!
 

BillyClone

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Splits in the urban communities will keep bumping borderline schools down a class.

Waukee will have two top-30 enrollments.
Iowa City Liberty is already into the top 40.
If Ankeny had 3 high schools (rumored to be on the way), they'd each be the size of Fort Dodge already.
Valley could split and still have a pair of top-25 numbers.

Not a rumor and not a secret. Ankeny is planning to build a third high school. However, it is probably 7-10 years away from happening.

Also, it isn't an automatic that it will be just another traditional high school that splits the district into three parts. They are exploring magnet school ideas (e.g. a "tech" school with close ties to DMACC's tech programs) that may allow for open enrollment across the district. Time will tell.

In any case, yes, Ankeny is huge. They split HS in 2013 and six years later both of its high schools are top 15 in the state, by enrollment.
 

IASTATE07

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If there was a single class for private schools I'd be interested to see how enrollment would change for some of these 1A schools.
 
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SoapyCy

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Not a rumor and not a secret. Ankeny is planning to build a third high school. However, it is probably 7-10 years away from happening.

Also, it isn't an automatic that it will be just another traditional high school that splits the district into three parts. They are exploring magnet school ideas (e.g. a "tech" school with close ties to DMACC's tech programs) that may allow for open enrollment across the district. Time will tell.

In any case, yes, Ankeny is huge. They split HS in 2013 and six years later both of its high schools are top 15 in the state, by enrollment.

better put them into their own conference with other schools that recruit!
 
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cyhiphopp

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I went to a private school that was very good at athletics. We played up because we could. The richest public schools still ended up winning the championships though.

Here's my take: public schools could have unlimited funding if they really fought for it. The only restriction is what the district wants to spend (or can raise through bonds). Private schools have to fundraise for everything. My My guess is private school alumni give more than public school alumni because of the tax issue. People whoe select where their kids go probably have more motivation to see it succeed. Does that translate to athletics? Maybe.

Private school kids shouldn't be punished because their parents have more money, or they're better listeners, or have more time to practice. Instead of peeling them away why not find a way to raise up the worse schools.

Kind of unrelated, but if the rich schools win everything why are the majority of NFL and NBA players from poor backgrounds?

Oh, so my school was bad at sports because we didn't fight hard enough for funding. That makes complete sense.

Public schools have very little control over what they get for a budget and they constantly get screwed over by the local governments. And they have people busting their ass to try and get funding. But when they do, they have to use most of it for education and not athletics. Private schools have parents who can afford to donate for fund raising. Some public schools have parents who can't afford rent.
 

Bigman38

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I think the 1A and 2A schools need the help. What am I suggesting? A) more funding (both academics and sports) and B) Some solution to the private school "recruiting issue". I'd prefer the way TN does it (throw them all in the own class and let them beat on each other) but, I'd settle for a multiplier like IL has

and before someone says "there are not enough schools for a class P" stop with that. There are plenty of them

I could see that working for playoffs. But at least here in SW Iowa they'd have to play regular season games against public schools.
 

cyhiphopp

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Not a rumor and not a secret. Ankeny is planning to build a third high school. However, it is probably 7-10 years away from happening.

Also, it isn't an automatic that it will be just another traditional high school that splits the district into three parts. They are exploring magnet school ideas (e.g. a "tech" school with close ties to DMACC's tech programs) that may allow for open enrollment across the district. Time will tell.

In any case, yes, Ankeny is huge. They split HS in 2013 and six years later both of its high schools are top 15 in the state, by enrollment.

What I've heard about the new magnet high school in Ankeny is that they are talking about NOT having athletics at the school. So kids who don't want to do any athletics can open enroll to the 3rd high school.

There was so much push back on splitting athletics when they built Centennial that they don't want to do that again.
 

riceville98

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I could see that working for playoffs. But at least here in SW Iowa they'd have to play regular season games against public schools.

I'd be OK with this, as I know scheduling is an issue. Let's have it for Playoffs. Let them fight it out for 1 champion
 

IASTATE07

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View attachment 64928

Here are the locations of the 12 largest private high schools (based on enrollment in grades 9-12 only). the two dots in DSM are Dowling and Des Moines Christian. Other than DSM Christian all are Catholic schools. One of those schools plays in the highest league and another plays way down.

For those of you advocating a separate private school conference, do you A) think this geography spread is beneficial for 14-18 year old kids to play sports? or B) think a huge conference made up of schools ranging from 1,440 students (Dowling) to 187 students (newman in Mason City) is a competitive conference? Dowling has twice as many kids as the next largest private high school in the entire state. Don't you think it's better for those kids to play other schools of similar demographics, like Waukee, Ankeny, or Valley?

I can't imagine anyone thinking Wahlert in Dubuque playing St Albert in Council Bluffs is a good thing, or Heelan in Sioux City traveling to Assumption in Davenport for a Tuesday night basketball game is a good use of teenager's time.

Just like the regular season schools are free to play any class they want. I'm talking about for post season competition.
 
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cyhiphopp

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Ankeny is growing so fast, that I'm surprised those old allegiances still matter all that much. I moved to town in 2006, and I literally could not care less about Hawks/Jaguars. I have to think that it was a vocal minority that was pissed about splitting athletics last time that is only going to get smaller.

I don't know. I've only lived here for a few years and I've heard there's still bad blood. A lot of the more well to do moved North and took their athletes with them. The Hawks rebounded but Centennial is still the "premier" school.

If they can add an academic school to prevent overcrowding and not have to split sports again, I think they'd be all over that option. The Ankeny schools would be really tough then. More athletes to choose from but not overflowing the actual school.
 
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Cyclones125

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... Or they could increase the state funding for the DMPS schools. The reality is DMPS schools have the athletes to compete with rural schools (if not better) but by the time kids reach the varsity level, the superior training, dieting, etc. that rural schools can provide puts their teams above DMPS. Not to mention, a lot of the really good athletes end up switching to those rural schools. DMPS will have a $24 million budget cut next year (indirectly relates to athletics), it's a travesty that they are taking away even more money from the most critical part of our society's future that is already severely under-funded.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Here is a link to BED's count in Iowa, they count all students in 9th, 10th and 11th. They do not count the seniors since they will not be in school when they reclassify the districts and classes.
Valley is the largest school in the state at 2201, followed by Waukee at 2147, but they are splitting the school in the next few years., third is DM Lincoln at 1763. Indianola has 849 students in those three grades, less than half the enrollment of Valley, but both are 4A schools for the playoffs,
https://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019-2020-BEDs-Numeric.pdf
 

BillBrasky4Cy

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Ankeny is growing so fast, that I'm surprised those old allegiances still matter all that much. I moved to town in 2006, and I literally could not care less about Hawks/Jaguars. I have to think that it was a vocal minority that was pissed about splitting athletics last time that is only going to get smaller.

I lived in Skankeny when they decided to split the district and it was a very big deal and A LOT of people were very upset about it. I'm sure some of that has worn off but I imagine people still struggle with it (mainly Ankeny High peeps) because the district basically created a haves vs the have nots scenario.
 
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BillyClone

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What I've heard about the new magnet high school in Ankeny is that they are talking about NOT having athletics at the school. So kids who don't want to do any athletics can open enroll to the 3rd high school.

There was so much push back on splitting athletics when they built Centennial that they don't want to do that again.

Yes, if it ends up being a magnet school, there won't be athletics.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the third high school school will be a traditional high school with athletics and the district will be split into three feeder systems from its current two. The population is just simply growing too much to commit an entire building to a magnet usage (estimating 130,000 population by 2040). I think a magnet school will come, but it will be a smaller building (less than the 1900 student capacity of the current high schools). I think now that the athletics are split it will be much easier to split again. I think the push back will be significantly less than it was in the early 2010s. Again, only my guess.
 
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SoapyCy

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I lived in Skankeny when they decided to split the district and it was a very big deal and A LOT of people were very upset about it. I'm sure some of that has worn off but I imagine people still struggle with it (mainly Ankeny High peeps) because the district basically created a haves vs the have nots scenario.

yes, those poor folks in Ankeny who are on the wrong side of the (athletics) track...
 

BillBrasky4Cy

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yes, those poor folks in Ankeny who are on the wrong side of the (athletics) track...

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just pointing out the fact that the community was very upset when the district split. And yes, it's pretty obvious that Ankeny High was on the losing end of the deal when it came to athletics.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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View attachment 64928

Here are the locations of the 12 largest private high schools (based on enrollment in grades 9-12 only). the two dots in DSM are Dowling and Des Moines Christian. Other than DSM Christian all are Catholic schools. One of those schools plays in the highest league and another plays way down.

For those of you advocating a separate private school conference, do you A) think this geography spread is beneficial for 14-18 year old kids to play sports? or B) think a huge conference made up of schools ranging from 1,440 students (Dowling) to 187 students (newman in Mason City) is a competitive conference? Dowling has twice as many kids as the next largest private high school in the entire state. Don't you think it's better for those kids to play other schools of similar demographics, like Waukee, Ankeny, or Valley?

I can't imagine anyone thinking Wahlert in Dubuque playing St Albert in Council Bluffs is a good thing, or Heelan in Sioux City traveling to Assumption in Davenport for a Tuesday night basketball game is a good use of teenager's time.

Setting up a system that forces religious or private schools in Iowa to only play each other really does not work because of distance. But you have to remember, they would only be doing it for the playoffs, not during the regular season. So a kid from Sioux City would not be going to Davenport on a weekly basis.

The multiplier is the best solution to the problem, that would cause the fewest headaches for the state.