I had one teammate get pulled aside in the handshake line by the head coach after a game and propositioned to change to the school. It was a ballsy coach that didn’t care if it wasn’t kosher.
Level the playing field in HS athletics
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I had one teammate get pulled aside in the handshake line by the head coach after a game and propositioned to change to the school. It was a ballsy coach that didn’t care if it wasn’t kosher.
This is correct. Most private schools place a higher importance on academics and opening it up to anyone who plays sports well is foolish. Students aren't official reps of a school and talking to your buddy isn't recruiting. How many people open enrollment to neighboring public districts for one reason or another? Do you consider that recruiting by the receiving district? Marketing? Maybe. But recruiting? Why do the same principles not apply for parents wanting to send their kids to Dowling or Keumper or wherever?
I had this very same conversation with some other parents on my kids travel baseball team last weekend while we were sitting around the hotel lobby. The kids who go to urban schools generally speaking come from lower economic classes than the suburban kids and where your average kid in one of those suburban households isn’t worried about eating dinner or if their parent(s) are going to actually come home or catch a ride to practice. Our discussion was more focused on Waterloo vs Cedar Falls since my kids will go to Waterloo West in a couple years. Right now we’re trying to get these travel baseball/basketball/wrestling teams competitive and that’s hard to do against the rural towns around here let alone schools like CF or Prairie. Half the time we barely have enough kids for a team at each age group. Hell I grew up in a small town of 2200 people playing town ball and we always had 3 teams of kids playing baseball every year. Fast forward that to watching a Varsity football game my little 2A school had double the kids on the sideline compared to what West had this last year. If you want these schools to field competitive varsity athletics teams that starts when those kids are in 3rd or 4th grade getting them out playing on competitive teams. Those urban families have bigger problems than coughing up $1500 for team dues, a composite bat, glove, cleats gas and hotels to let little Jimmy play travel baseball. I don’t think reclassifying a bunch of poor schools is going to fix that.
So basically public schools are trash in your mind.
are you suggesting a pooled account that then gets divided equally between schools? then you start to punish those schools who do have fan support that usually comes from success
Not at all. If you've read my posts in the cave you know I'm a big advocate for public schools.
I don't know if he was saying that, but more equal funding across schools for athletics might not be the worst idea. Remember, the point is to teach, not to necessarily win.
I played HS sports and played on zero traveling teams. TBH the new model of year-round traveling sports sounds downright awful, for kids and parents.
Let's do a little promotion/relegation exercise. Move 6 teams in/out of each class based on RPI numbers. This would have to be done on a two-year results cycle due to district alignments and scheduling, but just looking at 2018:
4A #37-42, drop to 3A: CB Lincoln, Burlington, SC North, Mason City, DM Hoover, DM North
3A #1-6, bump to 4A: Sgt. Bluff-Luton, Lewis Central, Xavier, Solon, North Scott, Decorah
3A #49-54, drop to 2A: DC-Grimes, South Tama, Waterloo East, Keokuk, Dubuque Wahlert, Perry
2A #1-6, bump to 3A: PCM, Boyden-Hull/RV, Waukon, Benton, Algona, Chariton
2A #49-54, drop to 1A: Okoboji, Shenandoah, Vinton-Shellsburg, West Burlington ND, Forest City, Central Lee
1A #1-6, bump to 2A: South Central Calhoun, Bellevue, Interstate 35, Van Meter, West Branch, Dike-New Hartford
1A #49-54, drop to A: MVAO/COU, Sibley-Ocheyedan, Van Buren, East Marshall, Eagle Grove, Columbus Junction
A #1-6, bump to 1A: Hudson, Bishop Garrigan, Westwood, AHSTW, Durant, North Tama
The two new challenges that result are the enrollment spreads (Waterloo East 4x the size of South Central Calhoun, but both in 2A) and the geography (replacing schools with other schools that might not be in the same area).
Of course, all of this is just going to get worse as the population shift pattern continues. The 10 most populous counties in Iowa contain 52% of the state's population, with the other 48% spread across 89 counties. Rural school districts are spending their money on just transporting kids to/from school without them being on a bus for more than an hour each way.
4A #37-42, drop to 3A: CB Lincoln, Burlington, SC North, Mason City, DM Hoover, DM North
3A #1-6, bump to 4A: Sgt. Bluff-Luton, Lewis Central, Xavier, Solon, North Scott, Decorah
3A #49-54, drop to 2A: DC-Grimes, South Tama, Waterloo East, Keokuk, Dubuque Wahlert, Perry
2A #1-6, bump to 3A: PCM, Boyden-Hull/RV, Waukon, Benton, Algona, Chariton
2A #49-54, drop to 1A: Okoboji, Shenandoah, Vinton-Shellsburg, West Burlington ND, Forest City, Central Lee
1A #1-6, bump to 2A: South Central Calhoun, Bellevue, Interstate 35, Van Meter, West Branch, Dike-New Hartford
1A #49-54, drop to A: MVAO/COU, Sibley-Ocheyedan, Van Buren, East Marshall, Eagle Grove, Columbus Junction
A #1-6, bump to 1A: Hudson, Bishop Garrigan, Westwood, AHSTW, Durant, North Tama
The two new challenges that result are the enrollment spreads (Waterloo East 4x the size of South Central Calhoun, but both in 2A) and the geography (replacing schools with other schools that might not be in the same area).
Of course, all of this is just going to get worse as the population shift pattern continues. The 10 most populous counties in Iowa contain 52% of the state's population, with the other 48% spread across 89 counties. Rural school districts are spending their money on just transporting kids to/from school without them being on a bus for more than an hour each way.
Since reading about this online yesterday, I’ve thought a lot about this. Currently teaching and coaching at a high school in DM, I can get behind a change in football. Average score of 51-10 and 0-92. Those numbers are amazing if u think about it.
But as for other sports I totally oppose this thought. Look around the metro and u will find teams from various schools in other sports that have had success within the last 10 years. Boys and girls BB, soccer, swimming, softball. Those programs have strong leadership and coaches who are committed to the program. The programs that lack this leadership generally are gettin their a$$es kicked year in and year out.
Whoever said public schools have unlimited funding is out of their mind. A great place to start would be for DM to help fund youth programs. Another place to continue would be more support from the district. I’ve run into little things where we can’t even get a custodian to unlock the equipment room for basketball because they either were not aware or were told not to do it.
Des Moines has issues that go well beyond wins and losses. Rather than taking a One-size-fits-all approach, there needs to be an overhaul in how the district supports its youth and high school teams. They also need to hold coaches more accountable. You have to build your program with the support and not lack of support from the district.
But as for other sports I totally oppose this thought. Look around the metro and u will find teams from various schools in other sports that have had success within the last 10 years. Boys and girls BB, soccer, swimming, softball. Those programs have strong leadership and coaches who are committed to the program. The programs that lack this leadership generally are gettin their a$$es kicked year in and year out.
Whoever said public schools have unlimited funding is out of their mind. A great place to start would be for DM to help fund youth programs. Another place to continue would be more support from the district. I’ve run into little things where we can’t even get a custodian to unlock the equipment room for basketball because they either were not aware or were told not to do it.
Des Moines has issues that go well beyond wins and losses. Rather than taking a One-size-fits-all approach, there needs to be an overhaul in how the district supports its youth and high school teams. They also need to hold coaches more accountable. You have to build your program with the support and not lack of support from the district.
Yeah it was asking if that is what he meant, but how exactly would you go about that?
and yes I'll try to get my son into sports when he is ready but won't go for any year round sports and try to have him trying multiple sports through out the year if he wants. I was a 3 sport "athlete" at Ankeny, one sport wasn't school sanctioned (ATV MX) otherwise football and track.
There are 1,244 high schools in MN. The top 31 play in a division called 6A. That's 2.5% of the biggest (and historically best) schools. 27/31 of those are in in metro area, making scheduling easy.
There are 453 high schools in Iowa. Let's take 2.5% of them and we get just about 12 schools. 6/12 are in the DSM area and three are city public schools. Clearly this model won't work.
There are 453 high schools in Iowa. Let's take 2.5% of them and we get just about 12 schools. 6/12 are in the DSM area and three are city public schools. Clearly this model won't work.
That is an interesting idea. Maybe you should treat high school sports like they do club sports in Europe. Pick a number, say 6 is that magic number, top 6 in each class move up one class bottom 6 move down.
Just like anything else, the kids talk, if their is interest, then the coach calls the parents to gauge if the kid really wants to go there.
Kind of like when Holiask (sp) left ISU and ended up at Iowa. He talked to the Iowa players, they report to the coach his interest to transfer, and it goes from there.
This would be a great way to do it, currently districts are changed every 2 years. Look at how each school performed during that 2 year cycle and then go from there.
Its a win/win for everyone, the poor schools get a chance to get wins and get better, and the better teams play higher level competition. Gets rid of the IC Regina, kicking ass in 2A then dropping down to 1A, because their numbers have dropped. Throw in the multiplier and we have gone a long way to solving the problem. Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than the current system.
I think people have been so focused on winning and competitiveness, but at bigger schools participation is the bigger issue. In almost any sport there are good players at metro schools who never see the field because there's college level talent in front of them. Probably at least a dozen baseball players at Johnston that are good enough to play for 99% of the schools in the state but can only manage JV, and then what do they do as seniors? Years ago, Valley opposed splitting the high school because they wanted to be good at football. It's a missed opportunity because twice as many kids would have played, and Valley still can't beat Dowling anyway.
I bring this up because many high school rules that were originally designed to help competitive balance between different sized schools allow larger schools to instead neglect their depth and play a small cadre of kids. A great example is how you can win the baseball state tournament with two elite pitchers getting the lion's share of work, or the baseball reentry rule.
I bring this up because many high school rules that were originally designed to help competitive balance between different sized schools allow larger schools to instead neglect their depth and play a small cadre of kids. A great example is how you can win the baseball state tournament with two elite pitchers getting the lion's share of work, or the baseball reentry rule.
Whenever I see a thread about something I don’t care about I make sure to open it and post about how I don’t care about it
I would actually say it's common for good athletic programs to recruit kids and their families into the school district,it's amazing how often an athletic gifted kid's parent get an offer in a school for a job opening. Now that budgets are tighter it is happening less but back in the 80's it was pretty common. Another thing I have seen some of is a talented kid moving in with an AAU teammates family so they can all play on the same HS team.
As a native of Indianola, I can tell you both sides. Since Indianola has dropped to the Litte Hawkeye I've noticed a definite change in attitude towards sports. They are fielding better teams and better athletes. It's fun for kids again. We had no business playing against the Ankeny, Dowling, Valley's of the word with about 1/2 of the enrollment and a 1/4th of the budget. No one went to games, and there as never any excitement around the programs. No one wants to go out and get their ***** kicked every night.
Now for some reason I really can't understand, they still "play up" come state tournament time. So they spend the majority of their year playing 3A competition, only to go up against 4A teams for the tournament. That's logic I can't understand.
Now for some reason I really can't understand, they still "play up" come state tournament time. So they spend the majority of their year playing 3A competition, only to go up against 4A teams for the tournament. That's logic I can't understand.
By enrollment, Indianola is still in the top 40. That makes them a 4A school for pretty much every sport. They've just moved to a conference that has a bunch of 3A schools. So, they're not playing "up" in the postseason as much as they're playing "down" in the regular season.
You were correct...my Illinois experience was just a bit dated with respect to the church and private schools...like you said, Illinois now uses the multiplier rule...1.65 times the schools enrollment for the "non-boundary" schools. They also use a success rule where a school can get bumped up a level if they get two or more state championships within a 4 year period. The school can be moved back down to their normal classification if they don't have success at the higher level (within 2 years). While not perfect, at least they are trying to bring some standardization to the process. There is a waiver process if a school feels that a different outcome is needed.
Nebraska does allow schools to petition on moving up or down, but it is far from an automatic yes...waivers are pretty difficult to obtain.
I think the multiplier is great. Here's some information on how Illinois does it.
https://www.ihsa.org/Schools/EnrollmentsClassifications/AlphabeticalEnrollments.aspx
