NBA: ***Official 2019 NBA Playoffs Thread***

  • After Iowa State won the Big 12, a Cyclone made a wonderful offer to We Will that now increases our match. Now all gifts up to $400,000 between now and the Final 4 will be matched. Please consider giving at We Will Collective.
    This notice can be dismissed using the upper right corner X button.

cyfanatic13

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 19, 2008
11,041
9,660
113
Sounds like AD won't waive his $4M trade kicker and the Pelicans won't wait until July 30th to complete the trade as it stands now. This is big because it leaves LA well short of being able to offer another max contract, they need both of those things to happen to have enough cap room to offer a full max deal to any other free agents.

I get why the Pelicans are doing what they're doing but AD not waiving his trade kicker is a little selfish
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Doc

CyJack13

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2010
12,666
1,665
113
I get why the Pelicans are doing what they're doing but AD not waiving his trade kicker is a little selfish

Agree, I get that $4M is a lot of money, but I would think it would be well worth it to have another elite player on the court with you, especially come May/June. Also trade kickers are usually a reward to a player if they get moved to another team not of their own choosing, I don't think they should get another financial bonus when they force a trade on their own.
 

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
24,873
36,685
113
Waukee
I am surprised AD is not willing to basically pay $4 million in order to play alongside somebody like Jimmy Butler, Kemba, Kyrie, or Kawhi in Los Angeles.

With one of them plus LeBron, they might be prohibitive favorites.

Without... not so much.
 

jbindm

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2010
13,073
7,604
113
Des Moines
Agree, I get that $4M is a lot of money, but I would think it would be well worth it to have another elite player on the court with you, especially come May/June. Also trade kickers are usually a reward to a player if they get moved to another team not of their own choosing, I don't think they should get another financial bonus when they force a trade on their own.

Hard to believe some of these guys still aren't getting it - you need to surround yourself with as much talent as possible. Two stars or even three is no guarantee that you'll win anything. I'll freely admit that it's easy for me to say it since it isn't my money but for what AD has made and will make over the rest of his career 4 mil seems like a petty thing to get hung up on if you're all about wanting to win.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: chadly82

Gunnerclone

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2010
68,593
68,504
113
DSM
Hard to believe some of these guys still aren't getting it - you need to surround yourself with as much talent as possible. Two stars or even three is no guarantee that you'll win anything. I'll freely admit that it's easy for me to say it since it isn't my money but for what AD has made and will make over the rest of his career 4 mil seems like a petty thing to get hung up on if you're all about wanting to win.

This is where fans go off the rails. 1) now money 2) future money 3) location 4) winning

No one in the nba is “all about winning”. 25% maybe for the really unselfish guys.
 

jbindm

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2010
13,073
7,604
113
Des Moines
This is where fans go off the rails. 1) now money 2) future money 3) location 4) winning

No one in the nba is “all about winning”. 25% maybe for the really unselfish guys.

Could be. That's basically what the league figured when they made the supermax contract an option for teams who wanted to retain their superstars - money talks. But it hasn't stopped guys from Paul George and now Anthony Davis from forcing their way out of town. If he's already leaving tens of millions of dollars on the table by forcing his way out of New Orleans then why hamstring himself in LA over four mil? It's potentially the difference between him and Lebron carrying the team and having a third star to shoulder some of the load.
And again, I understand that it's easy to talk about leaving money on the table when it's not yours. Just seems like a curious decision to me. If he didn't force his way to LA to win then he did it just for the weather and location?
 

Dandy

Future CF Mod
Oct 11, 2012
21,838
17,015
113
Western Iowa
Recent #1 picks flopping (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and Markelle Fultz) reinforce why the Lakers won the AD trade. With picks you just never know if they're good or not. You know AD is good.
 

jbindm

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2010
13,073
7,604
113
Des Moines
Recent #1 picks flopping (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and Markelle Fultz) reinforce why the Lakers won the AD trade. With picks you just never know if they're good or not. You know AD is good.

What about the #1s that hit, though? KAT and Simmons are recent #1s and I see they're absent from your list.

It was still a good deal for the Lakers because they're in full win-now mode so it made since to mortgage the future. But it was every bit as good a deal for the Pelicans because now they not only get Zion but a viable path to build a team around him.

It was just interesting to see David Griffin on the other side of a deal where one team is selling out the future for the present. He did that for years with the Cavs.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CyJack13

CyJack13

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2010
12,666
1,665
113


Haha who could have seen it coming that that would be a terrible deal? Oh wait I did. Can we revisit the Gary Harris vs Wiggins debate? I think I'll have more company on the Harris side at this point.

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/threads/official-nba-draft-and-offseason-thread.229283/page-37

I have no hate for Wiggins. I'm just pointing out there's a huge disconnect between the player he is today, and what people on here think he is. He still has a lot of potential but there's a reason I can rattle off a whole list of stats (ORtg, DRtg, VORP, Win Shares, Ast Rate, 3 pt %, eFG%) where Gary Harris is better than Wiggins and the people backing Wiggins main argument is just "He's better". The numbers don't lie. The Timberwolves record doesn't lie.

Matt Bonner, Loy Vaught, Mike O'Koren, Leonard Gray, Alvin Scott, John Johnson, Junior Bridgeman. That's the list of most similar careers through three years to Wiggins on Basketball Reference. That's not a who's who of elite NBA players.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Sigmapolis

CyJack13

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2010
12,666
1,665
113
What about the #1s that hit, though? KAT and Simmons are recent #1s and I see they're absent from your list.

It was still a good deal for the Lakers because they're in full win-now mode so it made since to mortgage the future. But it was every bit as good a deal for the Pelicans because now they not only get Zion but a viable path to build a team around him.

It was just interesting to see David Griffin on the other side of a deal where one team is selling out the future for the present. He did that for years with the Cavs.

And I doubt the Pelicans even get a number one pick out of the deal but that doesn't change that they got a great return for a guy who was gone next summer anyway. There's a very real scenario where the Lakers picks are extremely valuable, and not back end of the first round picks.

The number four pick in any draft is obviously very valuable. The Lakers are probably going to be good the next two years, but the Pelicans don't have their 2020 pick and only get their 2021 pick if it's in the top eight. Otherwise that pick rolls over to 2022, where it's unprotected, that's the same year its expected that 18 year olds will be allowed back in so having two first round picks in that draft is better than your average year. They then either own, or have the right to swap, the next three years. This is going to be either post LeBron or with a 38-40 year old LeBron, most likely capped out and with limited resources (no first round draft picks) to improve.
 

jbindm

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2010
13,073
7,604
113
Des Moines
Haha who could have seen it coming that that would be a terrible deal? Oh wait I did. Can we revisit the Gary Harris vs Wiggins debate? I think I'll have more company on the Harris side at this point.

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/threads/official-nba-draft-and-offseason-thread.229283/page-37

I have no hate for Wiggins. I'm just pointing out there's a huge disconnect between the player he is today, and what people on here think he is. He still has a lot of potential but there's a reason I can rattle off a whole list of stats (ORtg, DRtg, VORP, Win Shares, Ast Rate, 3 pt %, eFG%) where Gary Harris is better than Wiggins and the people backing Wiggins main argument is just "He's better". The numbers don't lie. The Timberwolves record doesn't lie.

Matt Bonner, Loy Vaught, Mike O'Koren, Leonard Gray, Alvin Scott, John Johnson, Junior Bridgeman. That's the list of most similar careers through three years to Wiggins on Basketball Reference. That's not a who's who of elite NBA players.

I'm just wondering how they're framing a deal to move him. He's owed 133 million for the next four years with no outs. Who's signing up for that? Can they commit to paying a portion of that salary just to make it palatable enough for another team to take on?
 

CyJack13

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2010
12,666
1,665
113
I'm just wondering how they're framing a deal to move him. He's owed 133 million for the next four years with no outs. Who's signing up for that? Can they commit to paying a portion of that salary just to make it palatable enough for another team to take on?

My first thought was maybe a team like Memphis, Minnesota takes back the last year of Parsons deal. If Memphis is planning on moving Conley, they'll have a super clean cap after next summer. Take on the Wiggins max while Morant and Jackson are on rookie deals. They probably aren't going to have max type free agents lining up to play there, so basically taking him on for nothing. But still, you'd have to have some confidence that there's at least a borderline all-star type of player in there for that to a worthwhile gamble.