***Official WV postgame thread***

[HardcoreClone]

Why does everyone think getting rid of the "bad apples" next season is going to fix things? Have you watched this team during conference play? It's about coaching, or lack thereof. I've been saying it well before any locker room issues arose this week.

Prohm's offensive and defensive schemes are amateurish. He's getting outcoached by Drew, Dixon, Weber, Smart. No adjustments game to game, no in-game adjustments.

His first 2 years he had guys who were well trained offensively by Fred. Last year was somewhat excusable, always going to be a rebuild. This year he has more than enough talent and they are not well-coached to the fine details. No role allocation. Terrible with offense/defense subs and late clock situations.

He has no answer to how teams are playing us. He is willing to let opponents dictate what we do. No longer is the fun, up tempo Iowa State teams. He's fine with letting his worn down 5th yr Point Guard walk the ball up the court every possession. No pace, no energy in Hilton. Steve is a fine human, but he is completely out of his league in terms of being a high-level basketball tactician.

He can go out and get even more talent for next year, or find the right "team-first" players to correct ego issues. That won't matter when his offense and defensive systems have no purpose or identity.

 

[RoseClone]

Is your tv on mute? The commentators mention it every single game. Jay Williams, Seth Greenberg, and pretty much anyone who has talked about the Big 12 title race has stated this.

We are not the most talented team in the Big 12.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I'm uninfomed about their overall rosters and where most of their players are from, but it seems Tech and KSU have lots of players that have at least been there for a while and the result is real chemistry and consistency.

KSU, yes, TT not so much.

 

[CTTB78]

We are not the most talented team in the Big 12.

Agree. Classic press clippings that caught on early in the season for some reason. Once we have multiple McDAAs we might come close to Kansas, Texas, and even Baylor.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Issue with having one and done types around is the foundation around them has to be solid enough, and that hasn't happened for ISU.

I'm uninfomed about their overall rosters and where most of their players are from, but it seems Tech and KSU have lots of players that have at least been there for a while and the result is real chemistry and consistency.

Might just be lightning in a bottle for those two coaches but it seems like a better approach than something that feels top heavy and easy to fall apart, and ISU is closer to them for situations then say, KU.

Summarizing a bevy of issues in a few simple statements --

I think Horton-Tucker would take fewer stupid shots if Melvin chewed him out a few times.

I think Wigginton would close out on threes/stay with his man better if Naz took him aside with Matt after practice and patiently walked him through it until they got it right.

These are just examples of bad cop/good cop love. I think the program is missing that.

 

[ca4cy]

I’m not buying this. Just because you are a vocal leader does not mean that you are not allowed to make mistakes. Jacobsen was fired up because THT was walking around when there should’ve been a sense of urgency.

We could pick apart every player’s game on this team. We want the team to show fire and finally somebody does, and now all we do is complain about it.

Rebounding is effort and fundamentals. I'm not talking about mistakes. If MJ wants to lead maybe he could start by being the one guy on our team that doesn't get his ass handed to him on the boards.

I'm not singling him out for the losses or the way this team is trending. A I stated before there's enough blame to go around...twice. Toughness and leadership is one thing. Whatever the hell last night wasn't it, on his or anyone elses part.

 

[Cyclones125]

Lol 4 anti prohm posts in 4 years. Yeah this is legit.

Whose alt is this?

Believe it or not, there are people who follow ISU basketball that don't post 6,000 comments on this website.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Why does everyone think getting rid of the "bad apples" next season is going to fix things? Have you watched this team during conference play? It's about coaching, or lack thereof. I've been saying it well before any locker room issues arose this week.

Prohm's offensive and defensive schemes are amateurish. He's getting outcoached by Drew, Dixon, Weber, Smart. No adjustments game to game, no in-game adjustments.

His first 2 years he had guys who were well trained offensively by Fred. Last year was somewhat excusable, always going to be a rebuild. This year he has more than enough talent and they are not well-coached to the fine details. No role allocation. Terrible with offense/defense subs and late clock situations.

He has no answer to how teams are playing us. He is willing to let opponents dictate what we do. No longer is the fun, up tempo Iowa State teams. He's fine with letting his worn down 5th yr Point Guard walk the ball up the court every possession. No pace, no energy in Hilton. Steve is a fine human, but he is completely out of his league in terms of being a high-level basketball tactician.

He can go out and get even more talent for next year, or find the right "team-first" players to correct ego issues. That won't matter when his offense and defensive systems have no purpose or identity.

So does that mean that all of the games we’ve won Prohm outcoached Self, Smart, Weber, Beard? This really doesn’t make any sense.

 

[VAISUFAN]

I'm uninfomed about their overall rosters and where most of their players are from, but it seems Tech and KSU have lots of players that have at least been there for a while and the result is real chemistry and consistency.

So Texas Tech lost 6 of their top 8 scorers from last season. They do have pro-player Culver as Sophmore & Moretti Sophmore. Then added 2 Senior grad transfers in Mooney from South Dakota and Owens from St Johns. Odiase is only senior who plays who has been there for 4 years.

I would say they do have a chemistry and consistency from Beard getting players who fit into and buy into his system. But really only play 1 guy who have been there more then 2 years.

 

[clonehenge]

No, in college bb, the "leader" is the coach. MSU: the "leader" is Izzo. Villanova: the "leader" is Wright. Duke: the "leader" is Coach K.

Have you ever played a team sport? Every successful team has great leadership from within the actual team. Players that hold other players accountable for their actions or play...or just show them how it's done.

Why do you think Coach Campbell always preaches, "culture changers"? Those are players that step up and lead the team, whether it's through play, actions, talks, whatever...every team needs those kind of players. It doesn't just fall on the coach...and it can't if a team is going to be successful.

 

[jsb]

Well this is a real **** show. Some thoughts:

1. It takes 1.5 gin and tonics to not really care about last night. Start drinking everyone!

2. Honestly this fighting team thing is much more entertaining than a regular team that sucks.

Seriously this team is broken and all are to blame. But up until February 1st, this team was fine. I think it’s important to remember that the team was ok in the past. Something happened and they broke.

 

[CyBobby]

I was heckled for saying that this team could lose out a couple of weeks ago.... this is a team that just doesn’t care...

You could be right re not caring.....I have been on teams where if certain players didnt get the basketball enough they would tear the team apart internally, and btw LOSING amplifies it to the Maximum Degree......this could be csp's biggest challenge of his career....and remember GO Cyclones....

 

[cyatheart]

I was an undergraduate during the McD era. He took the best years of my life. Depending on how the offseason goes, the trend in the program could tilt that direction.

The worst thing about McD was he was constantly losing his best players and projected contributors for the next season one way or another. Guys would transfer, guys would "go pro" who clearly were not ready for it, and guys would just up and quit the team or even basketball entirely. They never had any continuity in the roster or the program culture, and while they notionally had talent (and did have some good players), they could never string it together to create a successful and resilient program in a strong conference and win consistently.

Losing seniors is fine. Losing guys at the back of the bench who had no chance to play is fine, assuming you are replacing them with upgrades. I know the roster had a stupid amount of turnover during Fred's tenure, but many of his transfers spent at least two years in Ames, and he still had some all-timer culture guys around (e.g., Melvin, Georges, Naz, Monté, Matt, etc.) who led the team and created expectations for the new guys and held it all together.

We already lose two starters to graduation. If a few of the other talented guys on the roster, and Wigginton, Horton-Tucker, and Lard are absolutely talented, leave or "go pro" just to get out of here even clearly prematurely departing, then that says all I really need to know. I accepted last year as a rebuild given the yawning gulf in recruiting the end of the Hoiberg era meant. If we need to rebuild again after this year, then I am not sure this is working.

This is a fantastic post. Wigginton, Tucker and Lard are not ready to go anywhere other than play college ball again next year. All clearly have talent. If we lose those guys, we got a problem. I have no idea what they will do, I hope they all stay. All that should be known in the next couple months though.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Summarizing a bevy of issues in a few simple statements --

I think Horton-Tucker would take fewer stupid shots if Melvin chewed him out a few times.

I think Wigginton would close out on threes/stay with his man better if Naz took him aside with Matt after practice and patiently walked him through it until they got it right.

Depends. Are THT and Wigginton still getting the same minutes and usage regardless of performance?

 

[CyBobby]

All early season was talk about how much they liked each other.

Things got tricky and it's been one weird season after that.

Adversity hit and that was the end of ..."they liked each other"......When the tough times hit it always reveals true character...that is what we are seeing played out in real time...and remember GO Cyclones

 

[WastedTalent]

Is your tv on mute? The commentators mention it every single game. Jay Williams, Seth Greenberg, and pretty much anyone who has talked about the Big 12 title race has stated this.

Lol. If you're basing your claim of "most talented" on what a couple halftime analyst said back in January, and some commentators who can't pronounce the guys' name correctly, then that's on you.

 

[CyBobby]

I'm never a run the coach out of town guy, but this is a goddam train wreck.

Can Prohm lead or is he the weak-cut-off-his-social media guy?

He's ******* lost this team

I feel sorry for Steve Prohm ....Steve is a very nice guy, who might just be too nice for this bunch of players....As Vitale said one time...er many times lol..."It's all about the PT, Playing time".....

 

[cyatheart]

Why does everyone think getting rid of the "bad apples" next season is going to fix things? Have you watched this team during conference play? It's about coaching, or lack thereof. I've been saying it well before any locker room issues arose this week.

Prohm's offensive and defensive schemes are amateurish. He's getting outcoached by Drew, Dixon, Weber, Smart. No adjustments game to game, no in-game adjustments.

His first 2 years he had guys who were well trained offensively by Fred. Last year was somewhat excusable, always going to be a rebuild. This year he has more than enough talent and they are not well-coached to the fine details. No role allocation. Terrible with offense/defense subs and late clock situations.

He has no answer to how teams are playing us. He is willing to let opponents dictate what we do. No longer is the fun, up tempo Iowa State teams. He's fine with letting his worn down 5th yr Point Guard walk the ball up the court every possession. No pace, no energy in Hilton. Steve is a fine human, but he is completely out of his league in terms of being a high-level basketball tactician.

He can go out and get even more talent for next year, or find the right "team-first" players to correct ego issues. That won't matter when his offense and defensive systems have no purpose or identity.

Who is to say who the "bad apples" are as well? Are there really bad apples here? They are just kids still after all. Maybe, maybe not. Are their guys that feel they aren't being treated fairly and as a result it has caused some riffs? Maybe. Hard to say what is going on. According to various people there are 5-6 bad apples on the team now based on how you look at it. Are all those guys bad apples? Can there really be that many strained relationships on this team? Is that really possible that 3 weeks ago everyone was fine and now there are that many bad actors?

This is a really bizarre situation, just not that often you see D1 teams lay down and quit. The team that lost to Hampton, I never felt like they quit or didn't try, I think Larry just went to the whip too often and ran them into the ground and they had nothing left. This is a really high level of basketball, with a lot at stake for a lot of people involved. Teams often get tired or don't play well or don't gel. But rarely do you see a team just go on strike like this one has. I can't remember seeing this kind of lack of effort from a team at this level. People say often that guys aren't playing hard, but most of the time it's just they suck or are having an off night. It happens, but rarely do you see players at this level do that, they didn't get this far by quitting. Something was brewing all year, or something happened. I doubt it's one guy that is the problem. Whole thing is just really odd.

 

[CascadeClone]

This is a fantastic post. Wigginton, Tucker and Lard are not ready to go anywhere other than play college ball again next year. All clearly have talent. If we lose those guys, we got a problem. I have no idea what they will do, I hope they all stay. All that should be known in the next couple months though.

Jimbo, I'd be shocked if Wigg isn't in the G-League next year, he is going to go and get paid somewhere, he is done in Ames. Lard will get "released on his own recognizance". Look for him in the Phillipines or something.

THT is the guy that needs to literally get with the program, and he is the guy CSP should go all-in to keep around. Yes he is sloppy and shoots too much. But he is young and can probably be taught. If he is the only alpha dog scorer next year, that would help just in and of itself. Plus, we're gonna need him to stay out of the cellar.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Believe it or not, there are people who follow ISU basketball that don't post 6,000 comments on this website.

Or 5 even. Just there to complain.

Yeah, this is not credible.