Time for new starting lineup????

[WastedTalent]

WVU isn't the team to go 4 posts to start.

If Wade and Osetkowski aren't big's, then neither is Jacobson! Jacobson's natural position is the 4. Plus not many teams have 4 quality 3 point shooters, even if they play 4 guards. So putting Jacobson on the 4th best 3 point shooter isn't much of a risk. He is not going to need to be in the guys face, so he can play off a step to prevent the drive and being 3-4" taller can still impact the shot.

I wouldn't go with a two post starting lineup with Jacobson, Lard or Conditt getting 70-80mpg. But depending on the opponent, I do see the value of trying two posts on the court at the same time and maybe the 3 guys play 50-60mpg.

IMO playing 2 bigs would help congest the lane and make it tougher for opponents to get dribble penetration from the top of the key extended- pick n roll situations. When we switch everything on screens, it is easy to get Jacobson or Lard isolated on a quick guard - advantage quick guard. At the same time the opponent post is being guarded our guard- advantage post.

I do find it crazy odd that Prohm has not played two bigs once, like literally zero minutes. At least since Solo has been out. I can't remember before that, but I don't think even then because Lard was out.

I'd never have the patience to be a coach, because I'm sure I would have thrown out Lard, Jacobsen, and Conditt when Baylor was eating our lunch on every rebound.

I gotta think that after the game, Prohm looked at the stats and thought "hell I may as well have put all the bigs in. Even if they had fouled out, the small lineup couldn't have done worse rebounding."

 

[CascadeClone]

I'm not against shaking things up, but I just don't think we quite have the right puzzle pieces to make the picture on the front of the box.

Too many volume-scorers. Not enough rebounders. We all love NWB, but he is more of an all-around guy than a true PG. Bigs have radically different styles of play. I'm not sure there is a "right" answer to be found.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Some guys just play better when starting, in Wigginton's case he might try to do to much to quickly coming off the bench! We'll see tonight which one it is. If he has a great game maybe he should have been starting since he got healthy! However CSP has to be able to get these guys to hustle which has been missing for a while now!

In Wigginton’s case, he may play better coming off the bench, but one game starting won’t answer that.

He’s played better than last year on offense, despite a rough start in shooting. On defense, I don’t see anything suggesting he’s trying to do too much too quickly when coming off the bench. Which is probably why he’s still on the bench.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Some guys just play better when starting, in Wigginton's case he might try to do to much to quickly coming off the bench! We'll see tonight which one it is. If he has a great game maybe he should have been starting since he got healthy! However CSP has to be able to get these guys to hustle which has been missing for a while now!

In Wigginton’s case, he may play better coming off the bench, but one game starting won’t answer that.

He’s played better than last year on offense, despite a rough start in shooting. On defense, I don’t see anything suggesting he’s trying to do too much too quickly when coming off the bench. Which is probably why he’s still on the bench.

 

[WastedTalent]

With this team, I can't recall where Conditt, Lewis, Talley or Griffin have hurt us when they played. They might not be same offensive threats as the starters, but defensively they don't hurt us.

I actually think this is opposite. Playing one of them probably doesn't slow us down offensively, but they can, and have, been a liability on defense.

Few weeks ago people were screaming for Conditt more, but the couple games before, he came in shortly and was immediately exploited down low, and on pnr, for easy baskets, so he had to be pulled. Lewis has gotten lost on rotations, and went the wrong way on screens as well, and has lead to easy buckets.

It is getting later in the season, so ideally a guy like Conditt is gaining experience, and confidence, and hopefully can contribute down the stretch.

 

[bozclone]

Bottom line is that the players need to play better. Starting lineups and minutes should take care of themselves based on play/performance, but guys aren't playing up to their talent level. For us to be successful, we need our most talented guys to play well. That is not the case right now and that has caused a lot of the inconsistency in our play.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Few weeks ago people were screaming for Conditt more, but the couple games before, he came in shortly and was immediately exploited down low, and on pnr, for easy baskets, so he had to be pulled. Lewis has gotten lost on rotations, and went the wrong way on screens as well, and has lead to easy buckets.
.

You may be trying to describe Conditt, but you’re also describing most of our top-7.

Conditt was pulled in under 2 minutes at TCU. The defensive mistake thing is just as much a creation of not playing them. Guys making conceptual mistakes or being a step slow because it’s the first action in way too long is better than guys getting consistent major minutes repeatedly making the same mistakes, many of them effort in nature.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I'm not against shaking things up, but I just don't think we quite have the right puzzle pieces to make the picture on the front of the box.

Too many volume-scorers. Not enough rebounders. We all love NWB, but he is more of an all-around guy than a true PG. Bigs have radically different styles of play. I'm not sure there is a "right" answer to be found.

I think the key to making it work (and we have made it work at times) is that the big has to box out and the guards have to fill in to help on the boards.

 

[WastedTalent]

You may be trying to describe Conditt, but you’re also describing most of our top-7.

Conditt was pulled in under 2 minutes at TCU. The defensive mistake thing is just as much a creation of not playing them. Guys making conceptual mistakes or being a step slow because it’s the first action in way too long is better than guys getting consistent major minutes repeatedly making the same mistakes, many of them effort in nature.

It's a little "chicken or the egg." Are they a step slow, and in the wrong spot because they're lacking minutes, or are they not getting played because they don't know where to be, and don't have the fundamentals.

At some point you've got to trust the coaches, or at least acknowledge, that they're the ones that see them everyday in practice. If Conditt is not able to defend Jacobsen or Lard in practice, then good chance he's going to struggle in extended minutes against all the Big 12.

For the record, I'm all for playing a guys like Talley or Conditt in games where it's obvious the regular rotation is not giving a full effort, and they're down double digits. It's a different deal if it's a close game. Can you really afford to take a chance that Conditt comes in and gives up two easy scores, and you go from down 4, to down 8?

I thought a perfect scenario was the KSt game in Hilton. The regulars were not showing much effort, Conditt comes in, creates a spark, and he has one of his best games. However it was the next game, or game after, he came in against OkSt, and gave up a couple easy baskets to a much less talented group.

 

[curtgouty]

I don't get how Coach justified staying with the starting lineup because it worked - it obviously stopped a while ago. No changes (until tonight). Love these kids, but .... Again I have no idea what goes on besides during the games so.....

 

[FinalFourCy]

I don't get how Coach justified staying with the starting lineup because it worked - it obviously stopped a while ago. No changes (until tonight). Love these kids, but .... Again I have no idea what goes on besides during the games so.....

He may have justified it by putting on game and practice film and decided the two guys on the bench made mistakes more unbecoming of being a starter than the others. Then there is the matter that Lard fouls too quickly to start.

 

[curtgouty]

I don't get how Coach justified staying with the starting lineup because it worked - it obviously stopped a while ago. No changes (until tonight). Love these kids, but .... Again I have no idea what goes on besides during the games so.....

Agree.... I think Prohms problem is discipline vs talent. Can he continue to garner talent and not use it because of disciplinary reasons? I am not a fan of MJ - really good player, but ???? Starting??? Over Cam and Conditt???Again, I am not a coach - but continuing with Haliburton (who is a great talent) starting over LW ?? I think TH knows, part of the chemistry problem. Again, it's all fun until you are good enough...........

 

[CTTB78]

If you were making a starting lineup of the most talented guys.
Wigginton
Babb
Shayok
THT
Lard
.....

This would be the line-up I'd like to see in the NCAAs. But I realize the chances are about zero.

 

[heitclone]

Go back and look at NWB and Haliburton's numbers for Feb/march. Neither consistently scored, that's tough coming from your 2 highest mpg guys. In the halfcourt especially, Tyrese struggles, he really only shoots spot up 3's and isn't a shoot first type of player. If we are able to get out and run, having them both on the floor is a huge advantage, if teams can slow the game down (like they will in the NCAA's) it becomes a disadvantage as we are essentially playing 4 on 5. They are my two favorite players to watch but they should spend a little less time on the floor together. NWB could really benefit from a little extra rest, he just has looked physically right in a while.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Go back and look at NWB and Haliburton's numbers for Feb/march. Neither consistently scored, that's tough coming from your 2 highest mpg guys. In the halfcourt especially, Tyrese struggles, he really only shoots spot up 3's and isn't a shoot first type of player. If we are able to get out and run, having them both on the floor is a huge advantage, if teams can slow the game down (like they will in the NCAA's) it becomes a disadvantage as we are essentially playing 4 on 5. They are my two favorite players to watch but they should spend a little less time on the floor together. NWB could really benefit from a little extra rest, he just has looked physically right in a while.

We haven’t been losing primarily because of offense, outside of perhaps the 2-20@TCU game