Pac12/Big12 alliance continues to make sense ...

[kingcy]

If something were to happen ISU and KU would be better fits in the Big 10. Think of the local rivalries that can be built. In football ISU could compete and it would make basketball so much more fun. There would be a nice pod of 6 or 8 schools that would make travel easy and create a nice little buzz that is missing from the current setup.

 

[HFCS]

Just for some meaningless anecdotal evidence, I was in the LA area for a conference last weekend, and had to do the requisite shopping for trinkets to secure the love and admiration of my family. I was amazed at the lack of USC and UCLA merchandise in the stores.

The turnout at sports bars here in LA for UFC dwarfs football (college and pro) and baseball. NBA seems to be the only major TV sport where the fan support doesn't drop off the map compared to the rest of the country. I know part of it is the pay per view nature but in Chicago if there was a big UFC fight there would be huge crowds of people at sports bars all day watching college football and then maybe some get into the fight that night, then the next day there would be even more people to watch NFL than UFC/college football combined. Here it's like nobody cares about football all day Saturday and then suddenly tons of people show up for the fight at night anywhere that will carry it and you barely notice the NFL is going on Sunday in comparison to the fight Saturday night.

 

[TykeClone]

But how would viewers be able to distinguish which team is which? They dress exactly alike, y'know.

That's the idea - the refs wouldn't know who to send apology letters to!

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

If the Big 12 can bring in a population center with almost 20 million people I'd give it a shot.

USC jerseys were everywhere when they were winning. The Rose Bowl and Coliseum have a major league feel on game day.

There are more people in LA who don't have cable than the entire Phoenix market. I'd jump on UCLA, USC, ASU and UofA.

You do understand that straight population numbers isn't going to carry nearly the same value on the next contracts right? The networks have been able to gouge the cable providers who then pass the buck on to their subscribers for years. With the rapid pace of cord cutting the big TV money is going to move to a streaming subscription base, so it will really boil down to which fans are willing to pay money to watch their teams. The numbers won't be strong for Pro towns like LA, which IMO puts the Big 12 in a pretty favorable position.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

If something were to happen ISU and KU would be better fits in the Big 10. Think of the local rivalries that can be built. In football ISU could compete and it would make basketball so much more fun. There would be a nice pod of 6 or 8 schools that would make travel easy and create a nice little buzz that is missing from the current setup.

It's not a popular opinion but I do think that Iowa State would be in a decent position to land in the B1G if the Big 12 crumbles especially with the changing TV market. The BTN isn't immune to the devaluation that ESPN has experienced and as people continue to drop cable packages I think BTN To Go will become the main revenue source for the B1G. It's going to be all about fan support and Delaney is well aware of our rampant enrollment growth. Obviously our product on the filed will need to improve but that appears to be on the horizon.

 

[weR138]

You do understand that straight population numbers isn't going to carry nearly the same value on the next contracts right? The networks have been able to gouge the cable providers who then pass the buck on to their subscribers for years. With the rapid pace of cord cutting the big TV money is going to move to a streaming subscription base, so it will really boil down to which fans are willing to pay money to watch their teams. The numbers won't be strong for Pro towns like LA, which IMO puts the Big 12 in a pretty favorable position.

I get it. But my question is;

Whether cable or streaming some entity owns the rights to the games correct?

So, let's say on one side you have a huge population league with marginal fan interest. On the other you have a marginal population league with huge fan interest. Wouldn't it be smart to put that peanut butter and chocolate together to make a delicious treat?

And for the umpteenth time it wouldn't be a f***ing merger (not talking to you Bill). It'd be a joint network we'd split proceeds from plus the added bonus of a Pac game (or two) on the schedule.

Like it or not, fair or not, the Big 12 is viewed as the weakest P5. An alliance with the Pac would assuage this.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I get it. But my question is;

Whether cable or streaming some entity owns the rights to the games correct?

So, let's say on one side you have a huge population league with marginal fan interest. On the other you have a marginal population league with huge fan interest. Wouldn't it be smart to put that peanut butter and chocolate together to make a delicious treat?

And for the umpteenth time it wouldn't be a f***ing merger (not talking to you Bill). It'd be a joint network we'd split proceeds from plus the added bonus of a Pac game (or two) on the schedule.

Like it or not, fair or not, the Big 12 is viewed as the weakest P5. An alliance with the Pac would assuage this.

I get that the Big 12 is "viewed" as the weakest/most vulnerable P5 conference becuase of the number of members but the numbers actually argue against that right now. The only way the 2 conferences create an affiliation is if there is mutual benefit and right now from a financial standpoint the Pac would water down what the Big 12 is pulling in. These discussions are pretty much meaningless until 2023 and by then who knows how things will shake out. I'm just tired of members of the media like Paul Finebaum who continue to rail on the Big 12 and create a false sense of vulnerability. Numbers don't lie and right now the Big 12 is sitting really well financially and when push comes to shove money talks and bull**** walks.

 

[weR138]

I get that the Big 12 is "viewed" as the weakest/most vulnerable P5 conference becuase of the number of members but the numbers actually argue against that right now. The only way the 2 conferences create an affiliation is if there is mutual benefit and right now from a financial standpoint the Pac would water down what the Big 12 is pulling in. These discussions are pretty much meaningless until 2023 and by then who knows how things will shake out. I'm just tired of members of the media like Paul Finebaum who continue to rail on the Big 12 and create a false sense of vulnerability. Numbers don't lie and right now the Big 12 is sitting really well financially and when push comes to shove money talks and bull**** walks.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir.

But perception is reality and that reality is that the B12 has been left out of the CFB playoff twice in it's first three years. OU fans love to blame this on everyone but themselves and they're not smart enough to recognize the correctness of your post.

As silly as it is I think that a simple alliance with ANY of the other leagues would help us in the perception department.

What's really pathetic is that OU fans can't see the evidence looking right at them;
NU
Mizz
aTm

Would OU want to be any of these teams right now???

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Hey, you're preaching to the choir.

But perception is reality and that reality is that the B12 has been left out of the CFB playoff twice in it's first three years. OU fans love to blame this on everyone but themselves and they're not smart enough to recognize the correctness of your post.

As silly as it is I think that a simple alliance with ANY of the other leagues would help us in the perception department.

What's really pathetic is that OU fans can't see the evidence looking right at them;
NU
Mizz
aTm

Would OU want to be any of these teams right now???

I would argue that the Big 12 has been left out once and that was year one. Saying OU was "left out" last year would be a fair statement if they didn't get boat raced by the team that earned the playoff bid. I think we are both on the same page for the most part and understand that the committee made it pretty clear that if you aren't OU or UT you are going to have to put together one hell of a season so that the committee can't pull another Baylor/TCU type snubbing.

I agree that perception is reality but you can bet the farm that the Big 12 is going to beat the revenue drum and it's pretty clear that money is the driving force. Just in the last couple weeks it's amazing how peoples perceptions have changed towards the Big 12 and Pac 12 once the revenue numbers were released.

 

[KnappShack]

You do understand that straight population numbers isn't going to carry nearly the same value on the next contracts right? The networks have been able to gouge the cable providers who then pass the buck on to their subscribers for years. With the rapid pace of cord cutting the big TV money is going to move to a streaming subscription base, so it will really boil down to which fans are willing to pay money to watch their teams. The numbers won't be strong for Pro towns like LA, which IMO puts the Big 12 in a pretty favorable position.

UCLA has over 500,000 living alumni
USC has over 375,000
ISU has over 200,000

Raw numbers seem to show more eyes on the LA games than ISU. They are both blue blood programs.

Are you saying you don't believe adding those programs would help the conference?

 

[CycloneErik]

That's the idea - the refs wouldn't know who to send apology letters to!

Obligatory: winners get the uniforms!

 

[weR138]

I would argue that the Big 12 has been left out once and that was year one. Saying OU was "left out" last year would be a fair statement if they didn't get boat raced by the team that earned the playoff bid. I think we are both on the same page for the most part and understand that the committee made it pretty clear that if you aren't OU or UT you are going to have to put together one hell of a season so that the committee can't pull another Baylor/TCU type snubbing.

I agree that perception is reality but you can bet the farm that the Big 12 is going to beat the revenue drum and it's pretty clear that money is the driving force. Just in the last couple weeks it's amazing how peoples perceptions have changed towards the Big 12 and Pac 12 once the revenue numbers were released.

We are.

 

[clonebb]

PAC is in trouble and losing money. We aren't going anywhere until 2024 if at all.

 

[3GenClone]

A media relationship with the PAC12 would guarantee content from 11 AM Saturday through 12 AM Sunday morning. That would have to be pretty enticing for advertisers and carriers. The PAC 12 desperately needs to increase their basketball viewership, and a Big 12 partnership would aide with that as well.

 

[jbhtexas]

UCLA has over 500,000 living alumni
USC has over 375,000
ISU has over 200,000

Raw numbers seem to show more eyes on the LA games than ISU. They are both blue blood programs.

Are you saying you don't believe adding those programs would help the conference?

UCLA and USC have good sized fan bases, and on that metric alone, they would be great for the Big 12. But as I see it, logistically, it's just not practical to have those teams playing 1/2 of their games in a timezone two hours earlier. Back in 2010, there were 6 Big 12 teams in the proposed jump to the Pac-12, and they could have created geographically (somewhat) sane divisions which would have mitigated the travel and game time issues. You can't do that in this scenario. You end up with two teams that are marooned on an island 1300+ miles away from everybody else.

That issue could possibly be mitigated somewhat if some combination of Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, or Utah come along.

 

[jbhtexas]

Keep in mind that the AZ schools are in that time zone more than half the year.

True, but it is during the summer months, and a good portion of the college sports season does not happen during that time.

 

[knowlesjam]

Hey, you're preaching to the choir.

But perception is reality and that reality is that the B12 has been left out of the CFB playoff twice in it's first three years. OU fans love to blame this on everyone but themselves and they're not smart enough to recognize the correctness of your post.

As silly as it is I think that a simple alliance with ANY of the other leagues would help us in the perception department.

What's really pathetic is that OU fans can't see the evidence looking right at them;
NU
Mizz
aTm

Would OU want to be any of these teams right now???

They would trade places in a heartbeat...especially with Missouri. They are competitive in every SEC sport and would thumb their noses at Texas 24/7. But the perception drum is being hit constantly by people like Finebaum...and perception right now in football is reality. Not making the playoffs 2 of the first 3 years. One less NFL draft pick this year than the flippin' AAC (not ACC). Football performance is the lens right now...not revenues...and the Big 12 is at the bottom.

Still, the revenue stream allows the Big 12 to not panic...and thankfully they made the right decision on expansion. Let the Pac 12 continue hemorrhaging $'s (like Cal)...let them pull the panic string.

 

[CascadeClone]

UCLA has over 500,000 living alumni
USC has over 375,000
ISU has over 200,000
Raw numbers seem to show more eyes on the LA games than ISU. They are both blue blood programs.
Are you saying you don't believe adding those programs would help the conference?

I'd assume those two schools would be net positive for the Big12 money wise. But to make any sense for the Big12 they would prob need to get AZ and ASU too. Are they net positive money too? It's probably close, but IDK. Then you are at 14, don't you kinda need to go to 16? And are those two (CU & UU, e.g.) going to be net positive? Prob not.

At least the argument to get the LA schools is pretty simple: "Hey UCLA and USC, would you make better $$ with trojan.tv and bruins.tv streaming your 3rd tier stuff or do you prefer the Pac12 network?"

Really hope Bowlsby and the geniuses of the Big12 are right about the streaming thing - then they will be ahead of the curve for a while at least.

 

[cykadelic2]

No it doesn't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

They are competition who has weakened themselves through terrible decision making. Why take on a lesser partner to prop up when you can just attack their assets for your own gain? Especially when said organization used your last partnership as nothing more than a ploy to attempt to lure away half of your membership. The P12 has shown that they are an organization that can't be trusted and in turn don't deserve the help - only a fool would fall for their ******** twice. Essentially you put the metaphorical boot on their throat, let them bleed cash for a few years and pick the assets of your choosing once they can't fight back.

I would agree but if the 10-team B12 is unable to sell all of its FB inventory to T1/T2 producers at competitive rates for the new TV deals as they do now, they will need one T3 producer (i.e. conference network) for the leftover content. The only two alternatives that make sense would be to buy LHN from ESPN and convert it for conference wide use or buy equity into an existing PACN production house and use it for all 20 or 22 B12/P12 schools.

The B12 cannot add P12 schools without a conference network in place unless a 12 or 14 school B12 is able to sell all of its inventory to OTA T1 and T2 producers (and T2 includes Amazon, Google, etc. who would elect to produce live sports content). I highly doubt a 12 or 14 team B12 would be able to do that which is one big reason why there was no expansion last summer/fall with the likes of Houston and BYU.

 

[drmwevr08]

Yes, the summer months of October and early November.

I'm not arguing that it matters but still.

Come to Tempe, please!