Pac12/Big12 alliance continues to make sense ...

[surly]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/19743196/why-2023-next-big-date-conference-shuffling

The Pac-12's forecast, meanwhile, is less encouraging, and its revenue gap with other Power 5 leagues will widen before the next rights negotiation. Cal's athletic department lost $21.7 million in the 2016 fiscal year. Although the Pac-12's geography and tradition suggests members won't be looking to leave, something needs to shift before 2023.

As an industry insider said, "The Big 12's making strides, while the Pac-12 is falling behind." Another asked, "Can other conferences take advantage of the Pac-12?"

 

[CYphyllis]

No it doesn't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

They are competition who has weakened themselves through terrible decision making. Why take on a lesser partner to prop up when you can just attack their assets for your own gain? Especially when said organization used your last partnership as nothing more than a ploy to attempt to lure away half of your membership. The P12 has shown that they are an organization that can't be trusted and in turn don't deserve the help - only a fool would fall for their ******** twice. Essentially you put the metaphorical boot on their throat, let them bleed cash for a few years and pick the assets of your choosing once they can't fight back.

 

[CY88CE11]

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...es-on-2023-for-conference-realignment.229437/

 

[chuckd4735]

ANOTHER RE-POST THREAD BY SURLY!?!?!

 

[TXCyclones]

We could have a uniform faceoff battle with USC. (Cue the uniform thread)

 

[Incyte]

How would surly/tmcats be able to post useless rankings featuring K-state on 21 different message boards? Doing it on 9 different ones seems pretty tough the way it is.

 

[surly]

Essentially you put the metaphorical boot on their throat, let them bleed cash for a few years and pick the assets of your choosing once they can't fight back.

I'm not sure what 'boot' this conference is wearing that would crater the PAC12. The fact it is network-troubled creates an opportunity here, either for an alliance which solves competition concerns in Norman and Austin, or a flat out buy (Arizona schools) that makes this league whole, post GOR's.

 

[VeloClone]

If you are able to promise valuable programs initial partial revenues that rival what they are currently getting from the PAC-12, better revenues on the horizon, top level competition in all of the major sports and many Olympic sports coupled with a dismal future for the PAC-12 predicted there may be many schools motivated to make a move.

 

[surly]

If you are able to promise valuable programs initial partial revenues that rival what they are currently getting from the PAC-12, better revenues on the horizon, top level competition in all of the major sports and many Olympic sports coupled with a dismal future for the PAC-12 predicted there may be many schools motivated to make a move.

The only candidates that make sense to join the Big 12 are Arizona's. They fit culturally. CU's ship has sailed. Utah, well, the cultural fit is there but what do they bring? The rest make no sense due to distance or mindset.

 

[Bryce7]

If Big 12 is going down the tubes, it makes sense.

 

[KnappShack]

No it doesn't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

They are competition who has weakened themselves through terrible decision making. Why take on a lesser partner to prop up when you can just attack their assets for your own gain? Especially when said organization used your last partnership as nothing more than a ploy to attempt to lure away half of your membership. The P12 has shown that they are an organization that can't be trusted and in turn don't deserve the help - only a fool would fall for their ******** twice. Essentially you put the metaphorical boot on their throat, let them bleed cash for a few years and pick the assets of your choosing once they can't fight back.

Dann! I like your style

 

[Stormin]

If Big 12 is going down the tubes, it makes sense.

What makes you think the Big 12 is going down the tubes? The revenues the Big 12 is giving to each school does not give the impression that the Big 12 is "going down the tubes"

 

[CYphyllis]

I'm not sure what 'boot' this conference is wearing that would crater the PAC12. The fact it is network-troubled creates an opportunity here, either for an alliance which solves competition concerns in Norman and Austin, or a flat out buy (Arizona schools) that makes this league whole, post GOR's.

They cratered themselves, the 'boot' would simply be not throwing them a damn lifeline like you're proposing. Honestly, looking at your arguments I think you're being naive on this topic.

 

[surly]

They cratered themselves, the 'boot' would simply be not throwing them a damn lifeline like you're proposing. Honestly, looking at your arguments I think you're being naive on this topic.

What specifically is naive about the arguments? It is not unusual for a white knight to secure an enterprise.

 

[CYphyllis]

What specifically is naive about the arguments? It is not unusual for a white knight to secure an enterprise.

Alliances, competition concerns, scheduling partnerships? You are picking your talking points from **** you read on message boards and sports writing hacks looking to fill an offseason. It's naive and frankly ridiculous.

True, the good guy occasionally wins out, but if I'm playing the probabilities I'm going with the aggressive ******* in that situation every time.

 

[jbhtexas]

What specifically is naive about the arguments? It is not unusual for a white knight to secure an enterprise.

Usually, the white knight in a business setting is looking for some benefit to his own interests. We aren't talking about a philanthropic situation here. The reason the Big-12 would get involved with the Pac-12 would be if the joint venture (whatever that would be) would bring stability to the Big 12. These days, stability is tightly tied to fat media payouts.

The Pac-12 as a conference has a small fanbase relative to the other conferences. This has been discussed in a number of different places. That's one reason why their network is struggling to generate revenue...they don't have the clout to force it on to all the carriers and/or command a high carriage fee, and the advertising revenues are low because the network it is not highly watched. California has a big population, but per capita it just doesn't seem to be that interested in college sports.

The question is whether the Big 12 doing something with the Pac-12 as a whole can somehow increase the fan interest on the Pac-12 side. If that joint venture doesn't cause a significant increase in interest in college sports on the Pac-12 side, I don't think the venture will benefit the Big 12 financially, and instead the Big 12 will end up in a practical sense subsidizing the Pac-12.

The bottom line seems to be that partnering up with a conference that as a whole doesn't have a big sports fansbase, in a sports enterprise, is rather tenuous. I have been an advocate of some sort of joint Big-12 / Pac-12 venture in the past, but the more I look at it, it looks less and less like it would bring a net positive to the Big 12 schools. It might be better to do it piece-meal...as Cyphyllis says. Go after the AZ schools to get back to 12, if there is some inherent stability in 12 teams over 10 teams. If more teams are needed later, Colorado and Utah might be willing. The two-hour timezone difference just isn't that appealing with the west coast teams.

Just for some meaningless anecdotal evidence, I was in the LA area for a conference last weekend, and had to do the requisite shopping for trinkets to secure the love and admiration of my family. I was amazed at the lack of USC and UCLA merchandise in the stores.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Usually, the white knight in a business setting is looking for some benefit to his own interests. We aren't talking about a philanthropic situation here. The reason the Big-12 would get involved with the Pac-12 would be if the joint venture (whatever that would be) would bring stability to the Big 12. These days, stability is tightly tied to fat media payouts.

The Pac-12 as a conference has a small fanbase relative to the other conferences. This has been discussed in a number of different places. That's one reason why their network is struggling to generate revenue...they don't have the clout to force it on to all the carriers and/or command a high carriage fee, and the advertising revenues are low because the network it is not highly watched. California has a big population, but per capita it just doesn't seem to be that interested in college sports.

The question is whether the Big 12 doing something with the Pac-12 as a whole can somehow increase the fan interest on the Pac-12 side. If that joint venture doesn't cause a significant increase in interest in college sports on the Pac-12 side, I don't think the venture will benefit the Big 12 financially, and instead the Big 12 will end up in a practical sense subsidizing the Pac-12.

The bottom line seems to be that partnering up with a conference that as a whole doesn't have a big sports fansbase, in a sports enterprise, is rather tenuous. I have been an advocate of some sort of joint Big-12 / Pac-12 venture in the past, but the more I look at it, it looks less and less like it would bring a net positive to the Big 12 schools. It might be better to do it piece-meal...as Cyphyllis says. Go after the AZ schools to get back to 12, if there is some inherent stability in 12 teams over 10 teams. If more teams are needed later, Colorado and Utah might be willing. The two-hour timezone difference just isn't that appealing with the west coast teams.

Just for some meaningless anecdotal evidence, I was in the LA area for a conference last weekend, and had to do the requisite shopping for trinkets to secure the love and admiration of my family. I was amazed at the lack of USC and UCLA merchandise in the stores.

The writing is on the wall that TV contracts are going to be much different when the GOR's expire. When the new contracts are negotiated the value of a given TV market isn't going to have the same weight that it had when the current contracts were signed since people are cutting the cord and the networks won't be able to pass the buck onto the cable companies. In other words, the Pac 12 is going to have to rely on a subscription based streaming platform to even catch up to the Big 12 from a revenue standpoint but the Big 12 has that as an option to create even more seperation. This is why Rutgers to the B1G was a horrible choice. Delaney completely over estimated the value of the NYC market and RU has watered down the revenue and will continue to do so moving forward.

 

[surly]

I agree that the Arizona schools should be targeted if some sort of alliance doesn't work. But a tie between the conferences for football and hoops would have wide appeal.

Folks who don't watch Ku/ISU would likely tune in to UCLA/ISU or Ku/UW and, in fact, buy a media ticket to that network.

ISU's tier 3 rights are worth $1.5 million/year, right? You don't think that improves with an aligned network package?

 

[CloniesForLife]

I would be down for the Arizona schools. I would love to make a trip down there for a game.

 

[JM4CY]

It will either be us or the PAC when it comes down to it. Well either be making trips to Tempe or Tulsa. I hope it's Tempe.