MONDAY MUSINGS: Defense takes some getting used to

[Cyclonepride]

I'm totally cool with a defensive team. I think just about everyone is on-board with it. The problem was (early on) that the offense looked like hot garbage. No movement, no excitement. Just chucking shots. Because of that, people were blaming the defensive focus. While it seems ridiculous, there's some merit to it assuming the focus was taken away from the offense in practice. There has to be a nice balance.

I think we're starting to see that balance. To get the defense where it needed to be, I think he had to make it the clear priority early, as that's a fairly dramatic orientation shift. He did just that, and yes, the offense suffered for a while. Now we seem to be getting back on track while retaining the defensive mindset. With our size deficiencies, I'm not sure we could just flat out outscore people this year, so I think it was a great call.

 

[tyler24]

I have not been a big prohm supporter recently because of the offensive woes I have seen. I have not enjoyed the pick and roll offense, but that may be because he doesn't have a shoot first guard running it like he is used to. Also, I see a log of offensive plays that involved a lot of our right handed shooters shooting while going left. A very difficult shot for someone who is a righty. It may benefit us more when we have more leftys.

 

[Stewo]

I think we're starting to see that balance. To get the defense where it needed to be, I think he had to make it the clear priority early, as that's a fairly dramatic orientation shift. He did just that, and yes, the offense suffered for a while. Now we seem to be getting back on track while retaining the defensive mindset. With our size deficiencies, I'm not sure we could just flat out outscore people this year, so I think it was a great call.

It is starting to come around. It's slow, but it's happening. We have to be careful with our long cold streaks of no buckets. That's how Texas got back into the game.

 

[Cyclonepride]

It is starting to come around. It's slow, but it's happening. We have to be careful with our long cold streaks of no buckets. That's how Texas got back into the game.

I do think we forced some shots during that stretch. Gotta keep making those extra passes (especially when you're up against a shot blocker).

 

[Stewo]

I do think we forced some shots during that stretch. Gotta keep making those extra passes (especially when you're up against a shot blocker).

That's what I miss about Fred. The ball was firing around at all times and we were so unselfish. That's how you get open shots. Plain and simple.

 

[Cyclonepride]

That's what I miss about Fred. The ball was firing around at all times and we were so unselfish. That's how you get open shots. Plain and simple.

Well....I think Georges had something to do with that. I remember quite a few throw-up-the-first-open-shot possessions as well. Make no mistake, Fred was an offensive genius, but if he had managed to install an average defense, we may have been able to reach even higher. I think a very good offense paired with a solid defense will take us farther than an elite offense and below average defense.

 

[mb7299]

Agreed on Niang helping out Freds offensive strategies, heck all you had to do is watch some of the summer league games for the Pacers to see how many little things he does at an amazing level offensively. I am also glad to see there was a defensive push this season, we would be awful this year with out it. Do wish the offense hadnt of been such hot garbage to start the year, I refused to even watch a second of that stuff as I could have easily gone to watch a pick up basketball game to see better offensive sets.

 

[boone7247]

I like the direction the defense has taken. The offense, well I think CSP probably wishes he wouldn't have shelved it in practice as long as he did. But if the idea is to be playing your best basketball in March, maybe this works out. Learning defense is tough, hard work, better to do that in Oct, and November, and then let the team grow with a good defensive base.

Also, while Fred was an offensive genius, his teams also went through some scoring droughts in games. I think the offense is coming around, not sure we need a closer on this team, what we need is more of what they did at the end of the UT game, attack with passing and get a good shot.

Monte is the only guy I trust to be a closer and he seems reluctant to do what is necessary game in and game out. So run the offense take the best shot possible, and we will be fine, since our defense keeps us in games.

 

[nickcyv]

I think blaming people being new to good defense is missing the point.

Most people want to win and don't care how we do it. We have have had great crowds at Hilton for good offensive teams and good defensive teams. The key to those great crowds? Winning

Also, good defense doesn't have to come at the cost of good offense. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

People are weary because we have looked like crap for long stretches against good and bad teams, got housed by Iowa, and lost at home to Cincy while playing good defense and awful offense.

 

[madguy30]

Most of the team struggles to create their own shot.

So true.

Many on here grip about the experience and how disappointing it is that they're not better...it's not a team full of ultra athletic players that have a lot of versatility.

People have forgotten about how Nader had the ability to score from all over the place and how much that opened up others in addition to Niang.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Different metric and calculations than KenPom, but tells much of the same story...

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2017-ratings.html



Definitely not used to being in that company amid some programs with reputations for some elite defensive basketball. For a small-ball team, that's actually damn impressive.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I'll take 12 steals a game all day e'ry day.

 

[madguy30]

That's what I miss about Fred. The ball was firing around at all times and we were so unselfish. That's how you get open shots. Plain and simple.

That didn't happen nearly as much as everyone remembers it.

It was certainly a faster pace than what we generally see now, but there were plenty of times where the ball wasn't moving, and/or it was one pass and a shot.

It used to drive me crazy when they'd have a small lead with something like a minute left, and they'd shoot a quick 3 only to miss and give up a transition bucket, as opposed to working the ball around a bit to take some time off and/or get a higher percentage shot.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

That's what I miss about Fred. The ball was firing around at all times and we were so unselfish. That's how you get open shots. Plain and simple.

You mean you miss Georges and Nader?

We didn't see a drop-off last year. I don't see Hoiberg doing much better on offense with this squad.

 

[djkent01]

In regards to Burton, I think Monte got it right. He harkened back to Hoiberg and said "make the simple play". That was totally evident on the pass he made out to Thomas for the huge three late in the Texas game. That likely wouldn't have happened in most earlier games and he would have forced up a nearly impossible shot.

The team tends to stop when he gets the ball because the ball stops. I'm hopeful he's getting it ala Nader last year.

 

[NetflixAndClone]

Matt is a volume shooter that isn't able to create on his own. He had Georges last year to suck in defenses, doesn't have that this year. He is what he is at this point - a very good spot up shooter playing a support role.

It might also be that Matt injuried his foot last week and he might still be recovering.

 

[isugcs]

Id take LarryBall (i.e. winning a lot) back any day. However, I think ProhmBall is striking a good balance. We aren't hanging with Baylor on the road without the defensive tenacity. A good defense looks like good offense, the team is as one. We're missing that, a few individuals are playing well. Once we get everyone in sync watch out!

 

[rholtgraves]

Well....I think Georges had something to do with that. I remember quite a few throw-up-the-first-open-shot possessions as well. Make no mistake, Fred was an offensive genius, but if he had managed to install an average defense, we may have been able to reach even higher. I think a very good offense paired with a solid defense will take us farther than an elite offense and below average defense.

he had some average defenses.

 

[VeloClone]

Different metric and calculations than KenPom, but tells much of the same story...

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2017-ratings.html

View attachment 45958

Definitely not used to being in that company amid some programs with reputations for some elite defensive basketball. For a small-ball team, that's actually damn impressive.

Interesting that on that defensive leaders list ISU is the only team that is averaging over 80 points a game and here we sit complaining about offense.