Promoting Messingham to OC was a mistake

[Bobby45]

I AGREE with you, Messingham to OC is the biggest mistake of Rhoads career to date, & will haunt us thru the next 5 games.

Its the old adage boys: "U get what U pay for" & in this case we went cheap just like cheese dip did with Bolt and McFarland and now we are gonna pay with a nice little losing streak.

Rhoads biggest mistake and hopefully he will learn from it and FIRE this MESS after the season.

 

[jsheep]

I'm going to have to agree. Mess' promotion was questionable at best. You have two weeks to prepare and that's what you come with? I realize Mess doesn't fumble or throw interceptions, but hey, let's give our RBs the damn ball every once in awhile. Our offense is weak, and that won't fly in this conference.

 

[jbhtexas]

I found the situation surrounding the OC hire to be rather interesting. In my experience, it's rare to fill a leadership position for a major organizational unit from within that area when said area has been struggling for some time. It also seemed to take a long time to make the hire.

The Big 12 has been an offensive-oriented league, and looks to be for at least this season, and likely longer. It seemed that ISU had a great opportunity pull a Johnny Orr-type move and lure in an experienced, successful major conference OC. It seemed pretty certain that the money was coming from the TV contract. Perhaps they tried and it didn't work out, or there were other political factors preventing that from happening.

8 games left, so we'll see how things work out. However, if ISU misses a bowl and is still putting up around 100 ypg passing at the end of the season, there will be some heat coming for the coaching staff, and probably not just from CF...

 

[CycloneVet]

You guys complaining, I'd love to hear how we should adjust.
1. Clonedude says we should run that screen we have been running all year, funny the thing I saw was press coverage all night, so results of said bubble screen would likely be a 5 yard loss or pick 6, both results I dont wanna see.
2. As soon as Art Briles is willing to leave Baylor to be our OC I say sign him up. Bobby Petrino too.
3. You could have Geno Smith out there at qb, and with our O-line he would struggle.
4. The same people complaining were complaining about Tom Herman too. He WILL be a head coach soon.
5. Until we get the talent that is required for the Big12 up front this offense and ANY offensive scheme will likely struggle. Not sure why you guys cant get that through your head.

I coach my 10 year olds flag football team and he was irritated 2 weeks ago when we were in a tough game that the plays werent working, and I should call better plays. Last week we won 38-12 and he said great plays dad, I ran a lot of the same ones. He gets a pass because he is 10, some of you I wonder if you are his age. My point is is your guy cant beat their guy then its hard to win the battle.

 

[ruxCYtable]

Dude, it's been four games. Four. And we're 3-1. Back away from the ******* cliff already.

 

[VeloClone]

glad we got this horrible offensive game out of the way early in the season so the coaches know what to practice. i say give coach messingham this season to prove himself, and if he doesnt then get rid of him. i just dont feel good about him as our OC. the offense is very boring and way too predicatable

I don't give a **** if it is boring. If the Cyclone offense ran the ball every single down and consistently got 4 or 5 yards a carry I think everyone in the country would say it is boring but it would move the chains and win games; especially with this defense. Winning games would make me happy. Obviously that is not happening but boring does not come into the equation. It is about winning games not entertaining a fan that isn't satisfied with a win, but has to be further entertained.

We heard the same crap about Tim Floyd's teams. He played boring ball but won games with talent that mostly had no business winning.

Just win.

 

[VTXCyRyD]

Yeah, because facts hurt, right? Best to live in Cardinal and Gold Kool-Aid dreamland where everything is nice and rosy.

This offense stinks. Yes, you could point to a game or two since Rhoads has been here where the offense was really good, but those are called anomolies. Those are outliers. The statistics prove otherwise. Our offense has been, and still is, one of the worst in college football.

If you were one of the worst performers at your job, you'd be gone. Sorry to hurt your feelings. This offense is bad. Possibly it would be better with a better QB, but I'm sorry, that's also part of your job as OC. If your QB can't run your scheme, then change your scheme to suit the skill set of the QB you have.

Did you sit behind and attractive girl at the Texas Tech game, and did you spit on the back of her neck/head while yelling at the game? If you did, did her husband say something to you with about six minutes left in the game?

 

[State43]

Are we Texas now? Every position this guy touched, improved over the years. OC is a big step up from individual position coach. Let the guy learn the ropes and figure out what works and what doesn't. It's 4 ******* games dude......

 

[cycloneworld]

I don't agree with the original post but I do think our offense is a massive problem this year.

We're going to have to score 28+ points in EVERY game (except for Kansas) in order to win in the Big 12. Our offense put up 6 against what people consider the 8th best team in the league. We put up 9 against Iowa (lowest scored by any of their opponents).

Until something changes offensively...execution, play calling, reduce turnovers, etc....we will struggle to win 2-3 games in the league this year. Which really sucks because we have a top tier defense.

 

[MLawrence]

If the Cyclone offense ran the ball every single down and consistently got 4 or 5 yards a carry I think everyone in the country would say it is boring but it would move the chains and win games; especially with this defense. Winning games would make me happy.Just win.

Realistically the offense really only needs to get 3.34 yards each play, and if the offense turned back time to play the ol' three yards in a cloud of dust then I wouldn't care if it was producing results.

 

[Wesley]

My standards are low? If you measure how well an offense plays, by whether the backups get playing time or not, your standards are off.


I never said I liked it. The point I was making was, how many times did the offense, under Herman, put out 37 & 38 points in games that didn't go overtime?

Ranking 90th in points per game at 24.3 is not good. However, it is better than ranking 102nd in '09 at 20.5 per game, 93rd in '10 at 22.2, and 90th in '11 at 22.7. The offensive problems you're complaining about won't be solved over night.

I do not understand how we can continue to play in the weak defense B12 and still be a 22 point team through the years. Guess we do not learn much from past history. Maybe we need a Seneca at qb every year just to get by. How will we ever go to the next tier if we cannot score? Next year, we will be very lucky if our defense is as good as this year. We do not want KU to be our equal.

 

[Wesley]

I found the situation surrounding the OC hire to be rather interesting. In my experience, it's rare to fill a leadership position for a major organizational unit from within that area when said area has been struggling for some time. It also seemed to take a long time to make the hire.

The Big 12 has been an offensive-oriented league, and looks to be for at least this season, and likely longer. It seemed that ISU had a great opportunity pull a Johnny Orr-type move and lure in an experienced, successful major conference OC. It seemed pretty certain that the money was coming from the TV contract. Perhaps they tried and it didn't work out, or there were other political factors preventing that from happening.

8 games left, so we'll see how things work out. However, if ISU misses a bowl and is still putting up around 100 ypg passing at the end of the season, there will be some heat coming for the coaching staff, and probably not just from CF...

Maybe the OC coaching money had been spent already in other areas and we had to promote from within...

 

[BigLame]

While I am frustrated as most, it is premature to throw Mess under the bus. Sure, there is a relationship there with Rhoads, but I believe as a 'CEO', Rhoads will not sit idly by. Think that is why Herman is gone in the first place, Wells & Mess switched beforehand, etc. Jantz was brought in to 'up' the competition at quarterback, and I believe that is commonplace throughout the whole team at every position. Think that same mentality applies to the coaching staff. Has anyone been added in the past year to the staff at a 'lesser' position that would be pushing others? Hmmmmm...

Not saying is would happen mid-season, but the thought process is the same - the best man for the position. Think this is how Rhoads has shown he operates.

 

[Wesley]

I don't agree with the original post but I do think our offense is a massive problem this year.

We're going to have to score 28+ points in EVERY game (except for Kansas) in order to win in the Big 12. Our offense put up 6 against what people consider the 8th best team in the league. We put up 9 against Iowa (lowest scored by any of their opponents).

Until something changes offensively...execution, play calling, reduce turnovers, etc....we will struggle to win 2-3 games in the league this year. Which really sucks because we have a top tier defense.

The first drives look good: Tulsa, Iowa, and WIU. The second half first drive looked good: TT. Is that all we have in our bag of tricks? Five good quarters out of 16 IMO. Thank God for Kirby.

 

[blutarsky]

While I am frustrated as most, it is premature to throw Mess under the bus. Sure, there is a relationship there with Rhoads, but I believe as a 'CEO', Rhoads will not sit idly by. Think that is why Herman is gone in the first place, Wells & Mess switched beforehand, etc. Jantz was brought in to 'up' the competition at quarterback, and I believe that is commonplace throughout the whole team at every position. Think that same mentality applies to the coaching staff. Has anyone been added in the past year to the staff at a 'lesser' position that would be pushing others? Hmmmmm...

Not saying is would happen mid-season, but the thought process is the same - the best man for the position. Think this is how Rhoads has shown he operates.

For what it's worth ... Herman took a promotion when he went to Ohio State and Urban Meyer. I don't think CPR could have kept him if he tried. Also, it takes talent to run the spread. It also takes a QB that can manage the game. Right now ISU doesn't have all the pieces. Messingham is simply working with what he's got.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Mess is 4 games in as the OC but I completely understand the frustration with the offense.

If this ISU team was in the B1G they would be dominant. A team with a strong defense that makes up for a below average offense that doesn't put many points on the board can dominate in the B1G because all of their offenses are below average. The problem is in the Big XII it doesn't matter how strong your defense is. Oklahoma has 5 star talent all over the field on defense and they still get shredded on a regular basis in the Big XII. If you don't have an explosive offense that can put points on the board with great regularity against Big XII opponents you are going to lose. The Baylor - West Virginia game is a great example... Baylor's defense allowed 807 yards and 10 touchdowns and somehow Baylor was in the game until the final minute. Why? Because Baylor's offense can put points on the board. West Virginia won that game after their defense allowed 700 yards and 9 touchdowns. Why? Because their offense put the ball in the endzone on 10 of 13 offensive possessions. Oklahoma State went 12-1 last season with an absolutely awful defense. Why? Because their offense could put points on the board.

 

[IcSyU]

If this ISU team was in the B1G they would be dominant.

No we wouldn't. Would we be a 7-8 game winner instead of 5-6? Probably. Would we be 10-2? Not even remotely close.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

No we wouldn't. Would we be a 7-8 game winner instead of 5-6? Probably. Would we be 10-2? Not even remotely close.

The point I am making is that you don't need a good offense to win in the B1G. You need a good defense. It's the exact opposite of the Big XII. In the Big XII having a good defense and an average offense will give you a bunch of 2-7 or 3-6 conference records. Look at the Iowa State - Iowa game for instance.... How many Big XII games will ISU play on a year to year basis where they can score 9 points and win the game? Chances are that number is 0. A team with a good defense in the B1G that averages 20 points per game on offense could challenge for the B1G title this year. That same scenario in the Big XII would put a team down with Kansas battling it out for last place.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Last year was a great example. Penn State finished 6-2 in the B1G. That was good enough to finish in a tie for 1st place in their division of the conference (lost the tie breaker head to head).

Penn State's conference game scores...

@ Indiana 16-10 Win
vs. Iowa 13-3 Win
vs. Purdue 23-18 Win
@ Northwestern 34-24 Win
vs. Illinois 10-7 Win
vs. Nebraska 17-14 Loss
@ Ohio State 20-14 Win
@ Wisconsin 45-7 Loss

Penn State's total points scored in conference play: 137
Average points per game in conference play: 17.13
Average score in wins: 19.34-12.67
Average score in losses: 31-10.5

2011 Iowa State
Total points scored in conference play: 194
Average points per game in conference play: 21.5
Conference record: 3-6
Average score in wins: 30.34-16
Average score in losses: 37.84-17.17

In 2011 Iowa State averaged virtually the same amount of points in their 6 conference losses (losses by an average of over 20 points per game) as Penn State did in all of their conference games combined in which they compiled a 6-2 record.

 

[CY ST8T]

KABOOM!!! I believe that is all a B1G fan needs to hear. Game! Set! Match!

Last year was a great example. Penn State finished 6-2 in the B1G. That was good enough to finish in a tie for 1st place in their division of the conference (lost the tie breaker head to head).

Penn State's conference game scores...

@ Indiana 16-10 Win
vs. Iowa 13-3 Win
vs. Purdue 23-18 Win
@ Northwestern 34-24 Win
vs. Illinois 10-7 Win
vs. Nebraska 17-14 Loss
@ Ohio State 20-14 Win
@ Wisconsin 45-7 Loss

Penn State's total points scored in conference play: 137
Average points per game in conference play: 17.13
Average score in wins: 19.34-12.67
Average score in losses: 31-10.5

2011 Iowa State
Total points scored in conference play: 194
Average points per game in conference play: 21.5
Conference record: 3-6
Average score in wins: 30.34-16
Average score in losses: 37.84-17.17

In 2011 Iowa State averaged virtually the same amount of points in their 6 conference losses (losses by an average of over 20 points per game) as Penn State did in all of their conference games combined in which they compiled a 6-2 record.