*** Official #2 IOWA STATE vs West Virginia Game(Day) Thread ***

NoCreativity

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You just couldn't do it. You can't keep from thinking 10 minutes in November would have mattered yesterday.
10 minutes? I've made it very clear I wanted Nojus and Watson playing in the 20s in the buy games.

Nojus was a 4 star top 50 player. I say get his *** in there and let him score.
 
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madguy30

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10 minutes? I've made it very clear I wanted Nojus and Watson playing in the 20s in the buy games.

Nojus was a 4 star top 50 player. I say get his *** in there and let him score.

20 minutes in a game two months ago helps how?

How does his 3 points in a November game translate to yesterday specifically?
 

NoCreativity

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Didn’t seem to matter against Kansas.
Hated rival on really short notice, teams get by all the time in situations like that when they lose a player.

What remains to be seen now is if the book is out on us while Milan is out and they start sagging off guys at the 3 point line now.

I'm extremely disappointed in Heise, usually those Valley guys like that are good shooters. I have zero confidence he's going to make it from anywhere when he shoots.
 

ClubCy

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Hated rival on really short notice, teams get by all the time in situations like that when they lose a player.

What remains to be seen now is if the book is out on us while Milan is out and they start sagging off guys at the 3 point line now.

I'm extremely disappointed in Heise, usually those Valley guys like that are good shooters. I have zero confidence he's going to make it from anywhere when he shoots.
That still doesn’t change the fact and has been proven that Demarion isn’t an outside threat. Nojus has not proven he can shoot it consistently either.
 
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Cloned4Life

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This the 1st game the Cyclones were not the tougher team down the stretch. Vs Auburn was a tie. Travel, missing a starter, tough environment all contributed, but WVU was the tougher, more confident team over the final few minutes.
Agree. That’s what I think took me off guard. The WAY we lost that last 4 minute stretch wasn’t in the range of outcomes that my naive fan brain thought possible. First time IMHO that we didn’t pass the “eye test” at any point in the game.

Gilbert, Lipsey, and Jones played 37, 36, 37 minutes

Structurally speaking, Milan doesn’t change much. Given we don’t play him at the 4 a lot, Milan getting time largely takes one of those three elite guards off the court, making our defense and playmaking worse.
Agree with your post except the structure part; I think it does actually change both the way we play and how we’re defended, structurally - given the spacing Milan provides. As Rob Gray pointed out, those minute counts are too high for our 3 elite guards, and the fatigue showed. Playmaking is not an issue with this team as long as 2 of those guards are in the game, and Milan isn’t a ‘minus’ defender or rebounder either. Only 4 assists yesterday shows the movement/flow is just way out of sorts right now.
 

rosshm16

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Small sample size of course but Nojus is shooting 33/15/57% on the year on FGA/3PA/FTA. I've liked his energy and "not afraid to shoot it"-ness in his limited time, but not sure he's our shooting slump-buster yet.
 

madguy30

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That still doesn’t change the fact and has been proven that Demarion isn’t an outside threat. Nojus has not proven he can shoot it consistently either.

He played 10-15ish minutes in a few games and showed some signs but wasn't exactly automatic points.

But we're supposed to think he makes up for everyone else hitting 1/17 from 3 and forcing things to turn it over.
 
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NoCreativity

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He played 10-15ish minutes in a few games and showed some signs but wasn't exactly automatic points.

But we're supposed to think he makes up for everyone else hitting 1/17 from 3 and forcing things to turn it over.
It opens up the offense when they at least have to respect a 3 point shooter. I'm not saying he would have done any better, but he can at least provide some threat of making a shot.

Yesterday we looked really stagnant and we basically have 4 guys on the 8 man rotation that have zero shooting threat outside of about 5 feet from the hoop. Heise, Watson, Jackson and Chatfield might as well not even be guarded outside of the paint. Things like that affect an entire offense.
 
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FinalFourCy

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Agree with your post except the structure part; I think it does actually change both the way we play and how we’re defended, structurally - given the spacing Milan provides.


As Rob Gray pointed out, those minute counts are too high for our 3 elite guards, and the fatigue showed. Playmaking is not an issue with this team as long as 2 of those guards are in the game, and Milan isn’t a ‘minus’ defender or rebounder either. Only 4 assists yesterday shows the movement/flow is just way out of sorts right now.

Fatigue and structural are two different things.

The fatigue one may be valid, but outside the minutes Milan is at the 4 (which I hoped we see more of), the three guard lineup is generally the same structurally.

Yesterday looked a lot like games we had a year ago with Milan
 

iseedit

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Nojus is 2-13 from 3 this season, and those 2 makes were against KC and against Colorado during garbage time of our 99-71 win.

Demarion Watson is 6-24 from 3 during his career. He was actually 2-2 last season.
Besides Maui, which I think Nojus played somewhat OK considering, I've seen him look like he's forcing things to try and get some attention. Maybe he's that way in practice too and ends up looking like a fool. IDK
 

madguy30

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It opens up the offense when they at least have to respect a 3 point shooter. I'm not saying he would have done any better, but he can at least provide some threat of making a shot.

Yesterday we looked really stagnant and we basically have 4 guys on the 8 man rotation that have zero shooting threat outside of about 5 feet from the hoop. Heise, Watson, Jackson and Chatfield might as well not even be guarded outside of the paint. Things like that affect an entire offense.

So he may not have done any better, but should have been playing 5 more minutes two months ago, and even though his stats show he had rather pedestrian numbers with 10-15 minutes/game, he's a threat to make a shot, in a game that just needed even bad 3 point shooting (like 25%) from the guys available to be a win if going by the points actually scored.
 
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twincyties

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I already stated my case a month ago after he ran the starters into the ground up 35 against Morgan St and again last week after Milans injury.
The KU final score was no indication of how close that actually was. We went up 9 with 4 minutes left and KU had the ball. Was cut to 7 with about 3 left.

There was very little opportunity to rest starters there. Maybe last 2 minutes but are you really going to FAFO at that point?
 
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rosshm16

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I'm trying to find a sortable database of NCAA team game logs, does anyone know of anything like that?

Wondering how common it is for a P5 team to shoot 1/17 on threes.
 

NoCreativity

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The KU final score was no indication of how close that actually was. We went up 9 with 4 minutes left and KU had the ball. Was cut to 7 with about 3 left.

There was very little opportunity to rest starters there. Maybe last 2 minutes but are you really going to FAFO at that point?
I never advocated for any bench players to be playing against Kansas.
 
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NoCreativity

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You literally said he ran starters into the ground last week after Milan’s injury.
No i didn't, I said a month ago against Morgan St.

You just misunderstood my post. We got into it with a bunch of posters before the Kansas game last week about how it would have been nice if Nojus and Watson were a little more prepared.
 
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NoCreativity

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So he may not have done any better, but should have been playing 5 more minutes two months ago, and even though his stats show he had rather pedestrian numbers with 10-15 minutes/game, he's a threat to make a shot, in a game that just needed even bad 3 point shooting (like 25%) from the guys available to be a win if going by the points actually scored.
Whatever, I'm moving on to UCF. I had this as a loss even before Milans injury so it doesn't really matter. I was just surprised at how bad we played on offense yesterday after they've looked so good all season.
 
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