CFP Expanding to 12 Teams

KnappShack

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Yeah, now the Pac will live a while longer. Before the threat of B1G taking teams was prob enough to make the M4 bail out. Now, it seems more distant.
Also they might feel even if the B1G does take 2 or 4 teams, backfilling w MWC and being a glorified G5 is still better than joining Big12. Not sure if that would be right or not, but it might be enough to keep them in the p12.

Feels like going to 16 w the M4 in 2 years has gone from 90% to 10% probability.
Totally feel the same. Trouble is that I'm conflicted as to whether that is good or bad... lol!
[/QUOTE]

We love playoffs in our sports. Hell the NFL is almost as bad (good?) as the NHL now. Everybody gets into the playoff.

Too much money on the table to worry about player safety
 

clonedude

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At least for 12 teams now.... the players have a reason to play in the postseason instead of choosing to not play. That's what was making most of these bowl games meaningless.... none of the best players were even playing in them anymore.
 
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CascadeClone

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The access issue is solved with this proposal, now the tough part.

How do you divide up the money that is expected to go up from $475 million per year to some amount over $1 billion after competitive bidding starts? tThe SEC and BIG will try and push for the payout based mainly on participation, while everyone else will look to keep the large base allocation.

Currently each Power five conference gets $67 million, and the G5 conferences in total get $67 million and then each team playing gets $4-6 million per game.

It will be interesting and important to see how this plays out. It is not out of the question that the Big 12 per team payout from the playoffs could go from $7-8 million to $20 million per year.

No wonder the Presidents voted to force the commissioners to get it done!
Very much the Great Compromise redux.

We want the Senate, P2 wants the House.
 

BigJCy

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Pretty good read on the Pros & Cons of Expansion:

The Pros and Cons of the Expanded Playoff Calendar​

As colleague Ross Dellenger reported last week, the College Football Playoff folks are busy working to rearrange the schedule to make a 12-team postseason tournament (11) happen as soon as possible. The Dash has long been a fan of that 12-team model, which is scheduled to take effect in 2026 but might be rush-ordered into existence in ’24 or ’25.

If the new Playoff can be pulled off that soon, it won’t look exactly like the more permanent model unveiled in 2026. But either way, there will be some fundamental changes to the calendar that fans will have to prepare for. The Dash looks at a brief list of pros and cons.

The overriding pro: a better postseason, more access to the championship, a wider net of contenders, more games with Playoff implications. It would nationalize a Playoff that has become increasingly regionalized, with 17 out of 32 bids having gone to teams from the South. Teams from that area may still dominate the final matchup (13 of the last 14 championship game participants have been from the South), but the excitement of playoff competition will be more diffuse.

That’s the fundamental underpinning of a bigger Playoff—it’s a good thing for more interested parties. Southeastern Conference commissioner Greg Sankey, when faced with expansion intransigence from his fellow CFP leaders, rightly pointed out that his league would still do just fine with a four-team model. But for everyone else, this is better.

But progress does not come without side effects, and the Dandy Dozen model will have several.

More August football (12). It’s highly likely that, come 2026, the putative “Week Zero” will become “Week 1,” and almost every team will start play the last weekend of August instead of Labor Day weekend. This isn’t a terrible development, and it pretty much has to happen to create any breathing room at the back end of the season. But it does present some challenges:

More games played in punitively hot weather, which could be a player health issue in addition to negatively impacting attendance in some locales.

More games played before the general student body is on campus, which also could reduce attendance (and home field advantage).

More games potentially impacted by severe weather.

A further lengthening of the regular season—and reducing off summer downtime—for the players, coaches and support staff. The current expectation is that everyone associated with a football program forfeit time at home to be on campus nearly all summer for workouts, and in theory this would add another week to the preseason grind.

More bad games. A lot of teams aren’t ready to play quality football in August; remember Nebraska-Northwestern this season? (Although, in retrospect, those are two teams that haven’t played much quality football since then, either.)

Moving rivalry games off Thanksgiving weekend (13). In moving up the start of the season, the big games traditionally seen on the holiday week that is most tied to football would be shuffled forward as well. Then conference championship games would be played Thanksgiving week. This is a blow to tradition—which, frankly, has been the most disposable commodity in the sport in recent years.

Get ready for the Iron Bowl, Egg Bowl and so many other in-state rivalry games to be played on the third week of November instead of the fourth. Get ready for Ohio State–Michigan and many of the Big Ten trophy games to be contested then as well. Same with the Apple Cup, Civil War, Notre Dame at USC, the ACC-SEC rivalries and so forth. That will take some getting used to.

In theory, at least, this might help student attendance at those games. A lot of them go home for Thanksgiving break and wind up watching those rivalries on TV instead of in person. If they’re played five days before Thanksgiving instead of two days afterward, that could put more students in the stands.

Greater conflict with the NFL (14). The presumptive start to the Playoff—four first-round games played on campuses, which will be awesome—is the third weekend of December. That’s when the NFL starts moving a smattering of games each week onto Saturdays. TV ratings show who wins when the college game goes head-to-head with the pros—The Shield is undefeated.

That has led to some theorizing about finding noncompeting broadcast windows on that weekend. One potentially palatable alternative: one game Thursday, one Friday and two Saturday, the latter two in competition with the NFL. Or one Friday and three Saturday. Either would work.

There would be no presumed conflict with the quarterfinals, which would be anchored around New Year’s Day—as it should be. That’s one day that college football should not just cling to, but return to prominence after lessening its role in recent years.

As for the semifinals? Those would be butting heads with the NFL wild-card weekend, which might make Thursday- and Friday-night options the most attractive.

College leaders did some anonymous chafing last week about the NFL big-footing them on broadcast windows. The complaint about the NFL’s recently announced addition of a Black Friday game the day after Thanksgiving is valid. But an expanded CFP competing with the NFL in late December and in January is a fight the college game picked, not the other way around.

The Playoff bleeding into the academic spring semester (15). Here’s a quaint notion—what about the academic impact on players competing into the latter half of January? A quick check of this year’s academic calendar for the current top five teams shows a lot of potential conflict.

Playoff semifinals contested 10 to 12 days into January and a championship game played a week or more after that would create academic issues for Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan and Clemson players. Michigan starts spring semester classes Jan. 4, Georgia and Ohio State on Jan. 9, Alabama and Clemson on Jan. 11.

Sure, other college sports deal with travel and competition schedules impacting classes at that time of year as well. But Playoff semifinals and finals assuredly would not come with the quick-in, quick-out travel plans of, say, basketball. Acclimation, practice and media obligations would require being on-site at least two days ahead of the game, if not three. The day after the game would be lost to travel. Depending when the games are played, players could be looking at starting a new semester by missing an entire week of in-person class.

As currently envisioned, the Playoff schedule does make room for fall-semester finals—a critical concession to the alleged reason the players are in college to begin with. But the start of the spring semester likely is going to be rocky for a few teams.

Further conflict with the December signing period (16). The Dash would very happily shoot the December signing period into the sun. This would alleviate a lot of problems, most notably the in-season acceleration of the coaching hire-and-fire cycle and the number of coaches abandoning their teams before bowl games. But until the national letter of intent signing period is changed—to March or April, ideally—that’s one more complication to deal with during the Playoff.

Trying to shepherd a high-end recruiting class to signing day while simultaneously prepping for and competing in a first-round Playoff game? Even the notoriously unsympathetic Dash would feel for coaches trying to balance those two massive tasks.
 

HawaiiClone

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The access issue is solved with this proposal, now the tough part.

How do you divide up the money that is expected to go up from $475 million per year to some amount over $1 billion after competitive bidding starts? tThe SEC and BIG will try and push for the payout based mainly on participation, while everyone else will look to keep the large base allocation.

Currently each Power five conference gets $67 million, and the G5 conferences in total get $67 million and then each team playing gets $4-6 million per game.

It will be interesting and important to see how this plays out. It is not out of the question that the Big 12 per team payout from the playoffs could go from $7-8 million to $20 million per year.

No wonder the Presidents voted to force the commissioners to get it done!
I didn't follow the numbers when the playoff was first created so what I'm reading here is new to me. If I am reading it correctly, it looks like the playoff is giving more money to P5 conferences beyond them getting a team in the playoff. I understand conferences getting more money based on regular season tv ratings and having more teams in non playoff NY6 games, but why would they get more money from the playoff beyond getting teams in the playoff? What additional value is a P5 conference giving to the playoff if they don't have a team in the playoff?
 
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HawaiiClone

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I didn't follow the numbers when the playoff was first created so what I'm reading here is new to me. If I am reading it correctly, it looks like the playoff is giving more money to P5 conferences beyond them getting a team in the playoff. I understand conferences getting more money based on regular season tv ratings and having more teams in NY6 games, but why would they get more money from the playoff beyond getting teams in the playoff? What additional value is a P5 conference giving to the playoff if they don't have a team in the playoff?
Read up some on this and it looks like the "playoff money distribution" referred to in JRE's comment actually refers to the P5 conferences' non playoff NY6 bowl contracts which understandably would give each P5 conference money. So it looks like the playoff games themselves actually only pay out based on participation which makes more sense.
 

JM4CY

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Pretty good read on the Pros & Cons of Expansion:

The Pros and Cons of the Expanded Playoff Calendar​

As colleague Ross Dellenger reported last week, the College Football Playoff folks are busy working to rearrange the schedule to make a 12-team postseason tournament (11) happen as soon as possible. The Dash has long been a fan of that 12-team model, which is scheduled to take effect in 2026 but might be rush-ordered into existence in ’24 or ’25.

If the new Playoff can be pulled off that soon, it won’t look exactly like the more permanent model unveiled in 2026. But either way, there will be some fundamental changes to the calendar that fans will have to prepare for. The Dash looks at a brief list of pros and cons.

The overriding pro: a better postseason, more access to the championship, a wider net of contenders, more games with Playoff implications. It would nationalize a Playoff that has become increasingly regionalized, with 17 out of 32 bids having gone to teams from the South. Teams from that area may still dominate the final matchup (13 of the last 14 championship game participants have been from the South), but the excitement of playoff competition will be more diffuse.

That’s the fundamental underpinning of a bigger Playoff—it’s a good thing for more interested parties. Southeastern Conference commissioner Greg Sankey, when faced with expansion intransigence from his fellow CFP leaders, rightly pointed out that his league would still do just fine with a four-team model. But for everyone else, this is better.

But progress does not come without side effects, and the Dandy Dozen model will have several.

More August football (12). It’s highly likely that, come 2026, the putative “Week Zero” will become “Week 1,” and almost every team will start play the last weekend of August instead of Labor Day weekend. This isn’t a terrible development, and it pretty much has to happen to create any breathing room at the back end of the season. But it does present some challenges:

More games played in punitively hot weather, which could be a player health issue in addition to negatively impacting attendance in some locales.

More games played before the general student body is on campus, which also could reduce attendance (and home field advantage).

More games potentially impacted by severe weather.

A further lengthening of the regular season—and reducing off summer downtime—for the players, coaches and support staff. The current expectation is that everyone associated with a football program forfeit time at home to be on campus nearly all summer for workouts, and in theory this would add another week to the preseason grind.

More bad games. A lot of teams aren’t ready to play quality football in August; remember Nebraska-Northwestern this season? (Although, in retrospect, those are two teams that haven’t played much quality football since then, either.)

Moving rivalry games off Thanksgiving weekend (13). In moving up the start of the season, the big games traditionally seen on the holiday week that is most tied to football would be shuffled forward as well. Then conference championship games would be played Thanksgiving week. This is a blow to tradition—which, frankly, has been the most disposable commodity in the sport in recent years.

Get ready for the Iron Bowl, Egg Bowl and so many other in-state rivalry games to be played on the third week of November instead of the fourth. Get ready for Ohio State–Michigan and many of the Big Ten trophy games to be contested then as well. Same with the Apple Cup, Civil War, Notre Dame at USC, the ACC-SEC rivalries and so forth. That will take some getting used to.

In theory, at least, this might help student attendance at those games. A lot of them go home for Thanksgiving break and wind up watching those rivalries on TV instead of in person. If they’re played five days before Thanksgiving instead of two days afterward, that could put more students in the stands.

Greater conflict with the NFL (14). The presumptive start to the Playoff—four first-round games played on campuses, which will be awesome—is the third weekend of December. That’s when the NFL starts moving a smattering of games each week onto Saturdays. TV ratings show who wins when the college game goes head-to-head with the pros—The Shield is undefeated.

That has led to some theorizing about finding noncompeting broadcast windows on that weekend. One potentially palatable alternative: one game Thursday, one Friday and two Saturday, the latter two in competition with the NFL. Or one Friday and three Saturday. Either would work.

There would be no presumed conflict with the quarterfinals, which would be anchored around New Year’s Day—as it should be. That’s one day that college football should not just cling to, but return to prominence after lessening its role in recent years.

As for the semifinals? Those would be butting heads with the NFL wild-card weekend, which might make Thursday- and Friday-night options the most attractive.

College leaders did some anonymous chafing last week about the NFL big-footing them on broadcast windows. The complaint about the NFL’s recently announced addition of a Black Friday game the day after Thanksgiving is valid. But an expanded CFP competing with the NFL in late December and in January is a fight the college game picked, not the other way around.

The Playoff bleeding into the academic spring semester (15). Here’s a quaint notion—what about the academic impact on players competing into the latter half of January? A quick check of this year’s academic calendar for the current top five teams shows a lot of potential conflict.

Playoff semifinals contested 10 to 12 days into January and a championship game played a week or more after that would create academic issues for Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan and Clemson players. Michigan starts spring semester classes Jan. 4, Georgia and Ohio State on Jan. 9, Alabama and Clemson on Jan. 11.

Sure, other college sports deal with travel and competition schedules impacting classes at that time of year as well. But Playoff semifinals and finals assuredly would not come with the quick-in, quick-out travel plans of, say, basketball. Acclimation, practice and media obligations would require being on-site at least two days ahead of the game, if not three. The day after the game would be lost to travel. Depending when the games are played, players could be looking at starting a new semester by missing an entire week of in-person class.

As currently envisioned, the Playoff schedule does make room for fall-semester finals—a critical concession to the alleged reason the players are in college to begin with. But the start of the spring semester likely is going to be rocky for a few teams.

Further conflict with the December signing period (16). The Dash would very happily shoot the December signing period into the sun. This would alleviate a lot of problems, most notably the in-season acceleration of the coaching hire-and-fire cycle and the number of coaches abandoning their teams before bowl games. But until the national letter of intent signing period is changed—to March or April, ideally—that’s one more complication to deal with during the Playoff.

Trying to shepherd a high-end recruiting class to signing day while simultaneously prepping for and competing in a first-round Playoff game? Even the notoriously unsympathetic Dash would feel for coaches trying to balance those two massive tasks.
My take on their “discussions”:

Pros: a buttload more money

Cons: all irrelevant
 

JRE1975

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Read up some on this and it looks like the "playoff money distribution" referred to in JRE's comment actually refers to the P5 conferences' non playoff NY6 bowl contracts which understandably would give each P5 conference money. So it looks like the playoff games themselves actually only pay out based on participation which makes more sense.

No, the current payout gives a base payment to each P5 conference and another payment in total to the G5 conferences. Participation payments are relatively low.

Think of it this way, the NCAA MBB tourney is controlled and run by the NCAA. The NCAA gets the bulk of the money for all the activities they do for all levels of competition and the payouts to participants (conferences) is relatively small. For CFP the Power 5 conferences are the majority owners of the CFP and the G5 are the minority owners, and as owners they all get paid.

The fight is going to come from the P2 thinking more of a participation based payments system, but as long as they buy off on all 10 conferences and ND voting on how to spend the money it will not go to a full payment on participation. Another issue is going to be if players who participate in the games are going to receive compensation.

The money involved in this is expected to triple compared to the current contract and the bowl games related as NY6 bowls.
 

HawaiiClone

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No, the current payout gives a base payment to each P5 conference and another payment in total to the G5 conferences. Participation payments are relatively low.

Think of it this way, the NCAA MBB tourney is controlled and run by the NCAA. The NCAA gets the bulk of the money for all the activities they do for all levels of competition and the payouts to participants (conferences) is relatively small. For CFP the Power 5 conferences are the majority owners of the CFP and the G5 are the minority owners, and as owners they all get paid.

The fight is going to come from the P2 thinking more of a participation based payments system, but as long as they buy off on all 10 conferences and ND voting on how to spend the money it will not go to a full payment on participation. Another issue is going to be if players who participate in the games are going to receive compensation.

The money involved in this is expected to triple compared to the current contract and the bowl games related as NY6 bowls.
I was referring to that relatively low payment for participation when I said that the playoff games (as opposed to the non playoff NY6 games) have payouts that are based on participation. (Do the non playoff NY6 games also have a relatively small participation payout)? I was also
referring to each P5 conference having a contract with a non-playoff NY6 bowl and how that seemed to be the reason why EACH of those conferences got a $67 million payout as opposed to the $67 million payout that is split up between the G5 conferences for the contract they have with the one bowl that the best G5 team plays in.

Is there more to this especially in regards to the majority versus minority ownership thing?
 

ForbinsAscynt

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I had a thought last night and need your opinions.

They should create an “NIT” type playoff to run before the CFP. 16 teams which means a total of 28 teams would have a post season, roughly 21% of college football. That would make postseason meaningful to all involved and the viewership would be better than the current bowl system. Before you say 16 is too much, if a team that plays in the opening round of the CFP makes the championship it’s the same amount of games.
 
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Cyclonepride

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I had a thought last night and need your opinions.

They should create an “NIT” type playoff to run before the CFP. 16 teams which means a total of 28 teams would have a post season, roughly 21% of college football. That would make postseason meaningful to all involved and the viewership would be better than the current bowl system. Before you say 16 is too much, if a team that plays in the opening round of the CFP makes the championship it’s the same amount of games.
That has been my suggestion for an expanded playoff, though I suggested a 24 team FCS style playoff, with a 16 team NIT of sorts. Really don't see the value of providing for a postseason for any teams that can't get in the top 40.
 

AlaCyclone

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I like the Rose Bowl (not like the B1G and Pac goobers), but I like it. Attended the 2010 game when Ohio State beat Oregon, and it was a GREAT experience.

That being said, it's annoying that they always want to be the fly in the ointment. As much as I would like he CFP to tell them to stick it, having a 12 team CFB Playoff is better for Iowa State and the Big Xii than telling the Rose Bowl off.

So, let 'em have their spot but NEVER slot a B1G or Pac teams there! :)
 

2speedy1

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Looks like they are finally telling the Rose Bowl either get on board or get left behind:


At some point they need to just tell the Rose that they can have their window, if they want to be a second tier bowl. If they want to be part of the future playoff/NY6 bowls they are just the same as everyone else in the field, no special treatment, or concessions. It needs to **** or get off the pot. All this bending over for the Rose is pathetic.
 
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jctisu

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Not even one whole year into the new system. And in case anyone wasn’t sure, the rich are still getting greedier:


In the article it also says how they aren’t sure the CFP Committee is really needed going forward with the next iteration (summarized that), so you can see exactly what’s going on. The Big Ten in general is still the one conference between the two that makes absolutely zero sense having four auto-bids if that’s what happens.

In almost no year is there four Big Ten teams worthy of that. Many years with two and three teams but four is a joke.
 

Freebird

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In the article it also says how they aren’t sure the CFP Committee is really needed going forward with the next iteration (summarized that), so you can see exactly what’s going on. The Big Ten in general is still the one conference between the two that makes absolutely zero sense having four auto-bids if that’s what happens.

In almost no year is there four Big Ten teams worthy of that. Many years with two and three teams but four is a joke.
Has to be some kind of anti-trust lawsuit at some point right? Anyway, this is so bad for college football. If this happens we need to 100% **** them all in basketball. Sorry B10/SEC you each only get your conference champion in. See, you still have a path to the championship so its fine. Not our fault we have a superior product.
 
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ClubCy

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In the article it also says how they aren’t sure the CFP Committee is really needed going forward with the next iteration (summarized that), so you can see exactly what’s going on. The Big Ten in general is still the one conference between the two that makes absolutely zero sense having four auto-bids if that’s what happens.

In almost no year is there four Big Ten teams worthy of that. Many years with two and three teams but four is a joke.
That’s why it was their commissioners idea.

We know what is coming next: no autobids for anyone if we can’t have 4. For arguments sake, that outcome might be worse for the Big 12.
 

Cyclonsin

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That’s why it was their commissioners idea.

We know what is coming next: no autobids for anyone if we can’t have 4. For arguments sake, that outcome might be worse for the Big 12.
What's coming next (and very quickly, I'd guess) is the elimination of the bye for conference champs. The moment a Big 12 team is seeded higher than Bama/UGA/Texas/Tennessee/Ohio State/Penn State/etc the media folk will be up in arms about it.

Conference champion autobids, as a whole, will likely last a while as that's a fairly easy way to stop G5 conferences from suing over the whole thing.
 

JHUNSY

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On field performance and metrics no longer seem to matter. But we’ve known this all along, when the selection committee started changing criteria to fit their narrative.

The “datapoints” don’t even matter when you’re comparing apples to oranges. 8 or 9 “power” games from an SEC team to 9 or 10 for the others. A solid “power” win in November isn’t enough quality to surpass an SEC FCS cupcake. And of course, let’s **** on the Big 12 when they do that in the basketball season, but SEC football gets a pass.

We were told winning your conference matters, but obviously 13-14 SEC teams and 16-17 Big 10 teams don’t want left out. And the conferences are so large now that it’s not possible to do round robin, so there’s a large swing in strength of schedule comparisons from one school to the next.

This isn’t a playoff, it’s an invitational. Let’s just call it that.