NCAA Conf. Commsnrs Seek Congressional Help with NIL while Cong. Has for Years Been Influenced by MLB Lobbyists to Keep Illogical Antitrust Exemption

[WhoISthis]

I don't think it's even slightly feasible to think that Congress would force the NFL to create a minor league system. That kind of power is reserved for emergency situations like wars and pandemics, not to preserve some antiquated form of sports entertainment.

Potentially, they could take up the cause that Maurice Clarret championed earlier this century, but even if they ruled that players could go directly from high school to the NFL/NBA, that doesn't suddenly mean that all of these issues go away.

Neither are likely to happen, though.

Agree
It not only has no political value, the scale needed not feasible.

Say the top 30 high school football players went straight to the NFL? Would it matter to CFB? Would it stop boosters and coaches from wanting better talent than their opponents?

It would take nearly an entire draft worth, which just isn’t happening.

And Congress had no interest or gain in forcing the NFL to create a development league when they have a successful, self-funded one now for free. If they force anything, it will be to pay the players if the school participates in semi-professional league activities.

Did high schoolers bypassing college basketball between 1995-2006 change anything? There are only so many GLeague spots.

As long coaches, boosters, and players all benefit from getting paid playing at a school, it will happen. We have a self made problem with a fundamentally easy fix, although administrative details will need to be worked out. These ADs can actually earn their pay now

 

[cykadelic2]

Conference Commissioners are too invested in the current model. But that is a reasonable expectation since they live & breath college athletics.

Anti-trust isn't the issue. NIL isn't the issue.

The issue is NBA and NFL owners need to be pushed to fund legitimate minor league system similar to MLB. If Congress wants to do something, they should exert some pressure on NFL & NBA Owners. Maybe threaten a tax on franchise value when it is sold by franchise owners who use public funding sources to build their stadiums.

The other issue that Congress could legislate is the NFL and NBA preventing young men from earning a living by creating arbitrary restrictions when young athletes can be eligible for the NBA & NFL drafts. In MLB the 1st round signing bonus slots in 2021 ranged from $8.4M for the #1 pick to $2.4M for the last pick. In the 2nd round the signing bonuses ranged from $2M to $1.1M.

If the NBA implemented a similar signing bonus structure- I bet most of the top HS hoops players would enter the NBA draft vs. going to college. IMO leveling the talent pool coming into college sports will solve the crazy NIL stuff currently happening.

NBA Draft rules are collectively bargained and NFL Draft rules have been litigated and the NFL won.

And there is no rational legal justification for NBA owners to create a minor league system when they already have the GLeague and their Ignite franchise for kids out of HS. And there is Overtime Elite as well.

And there is no rational justification to have college athletes be paid as employees beyond FCOA and their NIL rights when participation is voluntary and there are no restrictions on deep pocketed boosters or others forming their own professional FB or BB leagues for kids out of HS. Now if a revenue sharing CBA for P5 or P4 athletes can be worked out that would pass Title IX muster, mitigate tampering/poaching. and mitigate booster intervention, that CBA model would be fine by me.

 

[jbhtexas]

NBA Draft rules are collectively bargained and NFL Draft rules have been litigated and the NFL won.

But those rules still prevent athletes who don't meet their age requirements but are talented enough to play in their leagues from making income. The states have legislated that the NCAA can't prevent athletes from earning NIL income, but they have no similar legislation (that I am aware of) preventing the NFL and NBA from denying certain young athletes from earning income. Do these state NIL laws unfairly target the NCAA relative to the NFL and NBA?

 

[WhoISthis]

And there is no rational justification to have college athletes be paid as employees beyond FCOA and their NIL rights when participation is voluntary and there are no restrictions on deep pocketed boosters or others forming their own professional FB or BB leagues for kids out of HS.

That’s basically what they’re doing with a new top level the sport is trending towards. You can just as easily argue there’s no rational justification for schools that want to treat athletes like employees not to have that option. NCAA and amateurism model should be voluntary. Schools will still be free to have amateur club offerings.

 

[Mr Janny]

But those rules still prevent athletes who don't meet their age requirements but are talented enough to play in their leagues from making income. The states have legislated that the NCAA can't prevent athletes from earning NIL income, but they have no similar legislation (that I am aware of) preventing the NFL and NBA from denying certain young athletes from earning income. Do these state NIL laws unfairly target the NCAA relative to the NFL and NBA?

I'm not sure if I follow. The NIL laws, for the most part, guarantee that athletes can't lose their eligibility or scholarship as a result of making money from their name image and likeness, or hiring representation.

That wouldn't apply to the NBA/NFL because they aren't providing scholarships and, more importantly, already allow athletes to profit from their NIL rights.

 

[jbhtexas]

I'm not sure if I follow. The NIL laws, for the most part, guarantee that athletes can't lose their eligibility or scholarship as a result of making money from their name image and likeness, or hiring representation.

That wouldn't apply to the NBA/NFL because they aren't providing scholarships and, more importantly, already allow athletes to profit from their NIL rights.

As I read the NIL laws, they prohibit the NCAA from denying an athlete the right to earn NIL compensation.

In the broader view, beyond scholarships and NIL, the NCAA and NFL/NBA was\are preventing athletes from earning income...the NCAA via banning NIL, and the NBA/NFL by age restriction. Different methods...same result.

The states have taken away the right of the NCAA to deny compensation, but they still allow the NFL/NBA to do so.

 

[WhoISthis]

As I read the NIL laws, they prohibit the NCAA from denying an athlete the right to earn NIL compensation.

In the broader view, beyond scholarships and NIL, the NCAA and NFL/NBA was\are preventing athletes from earning income...the NCAA via banning NIL, and the NBA/NFL by age restriction. Different methods...same result.

The states have taken away the right of the NCAA to deny compensation, but they still allow the NFL/NBA to do so.

Age restrictions stand on far firmer ground than banning monetization of NIL imo

 

[isucy86]

NBA Draft rules are collectively bargained and NFL Draft rules have been litigated and the NFL won.

And there is no rational legal justification for NBA owners to create a minor league system when they already have the GLeague and their Ignite franchise for kids out of HS. And there is Overtime Elite as well.

And there is no rational justification to have college athletes be paid as employees beyond FCOA and their NIL rights when participation is voluntary and there are no restrictions on deep pocketed boosters or others forming their own professional FB or BB leagues for kids out of HS. Now if a revenue sharing CBA for P5 or P4 athletes can be worked out that would pass Title IX muster, mitigate tampering/poaching. and mitigate booster intervention, that CBA model would be fine by me.

The Ignit G-League team attracts a handful of HS kids. Is that an earnest attempt by the NBA to fund a minor league? It's laughable.

MLB is able to payout hundreds of millions in signing bonuses in it's draft. Most guys drafted by MLB are 5 years from the majors. Why was it OK for players like Moses Malone, Daryl Dawkins, Tracey McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Labron James, etc to be drafted immediately out of HS? With AAU & Prep Schools aren't 18 year olds more skilled today than when Lebron was drafted? Of course they are!

The reason 18 year olds were banned from the draft was players already in the league hated seeing tens of millions going to HS kids vs. players in the league. So of course the union and owners colluded to line their pockets at the expense of 18 year olds.

If the NBA was playing HS kids millions to enter the draft- most HS kids would choose that route.

Maybe the result is all levels of D1 would move toward the Ivy League model for college sport. Where a scholarship is enough compensation. Where athletes are interested in getting a degree. And obviously, they could make NIL money for signing autographs, running camps and promoting local businesses.

 

[cykadelic2]

The reason 18 year olds were banned from the draft was players already in the league hated seeing tens of millions going to HS kids vs. players in the league. So of course the union and owners colluded to line their pockets at the expense of 18 year olds.

No, the reason the owners and union banned them from the Draft was due to needlessly wasting money on the vast majority of them. It was bad business for the NBA.

 

[HawaiiClone]

Please try to keep this out of the cave, folks

Where would be a better place to put it?

 

[HawaiiClone]

But those rules still prevent athletes who don't meet their age requirements but are talented enough to play in their leagues from making income. The states have legislated that the NCAA can't prevent athletes from earning NIL income, but they have no similar legislation (that I am aware of) preventing the NFL and NBA from denying certain young athletes from earning income. Do these state NIL laws unfairly target the NCAA relative to the NFL and NBA?

Good points

 

[Mr Janny]

No, the reason the owners and union banned them from the Draft was due to needlessly wasting money on the vast majority of them. It was bad business for the NBA.

Drafting high school players wasn't any more of a risk than drafting a player who played in college.
There were only 39 high school players taken between 1995 and 2006 when the one and done rule was established.
There were some big misses to be sure, like Kwame Brown and Eddie Curry.
But there were stars like KG, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Lebron, Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard. Also several solid careers like Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Jermaine O'neal, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, JR Smith, Kendrick Perkins, Monta Ellis, and Lou Williams.

The success rate wasn't lower for high school players than it was for drafted players who went to college.

 

[cykadelic2]

Drafting high school players wasn't any more of a risk than drafting a player who played in college.
There were only 39 high school players taken between 1995 and 2006 when the one and done rule was established.
There were some big misses to be sure, like Kwame Brown and Eddie Curry.
But there were stars like KG, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Lebron, Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard. Also several solid careers like Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Jermaine O'neal, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, JR Smith, Kendrick Perkins, Monta Ellis, and Lou Williams.

The success rate wasn't lower for high school players than it was for drafted players who went to college.

Obviously the NBA owners and the union felt otherwise and rightly so.

 

[WhoISthis]

Drafting high school players wasn't any more of a risk than drafting a player who played in college.
There were only 39 high school players taken between 1995 and 2006 when the one and done rule was established.
There were some big misses to be sure, like Kwame Brown and Eddie Curry.
But there were stars like KG, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Lebron, Amare Stoudamire and Dwight Howard. Also several solid careers like Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Jermaine O'neal, Tyson Chandler, Al Jefferson, JR Smith, Kendrick Perkins, Monta Ellis, and Lou Williams.

The success rate wasn't lower for high school players than it was for drafted players who went to college.

I don’t know if I’d say it was bad for business, but there being guys that went on to good careers isn’t necessarily the measurement I’d use. One would expect several high draft picks to still end up good players. I’d be interested more in the egregious miss rate.

I’d use the term better for business. Maybe slightly better. A little more data, a little more developed product when they’re on your books. Some great marketing on the Zion types while not paying them. There are only so many roster spots in the NBA and only so much time in a player’s career. I think current players, that inherently constitute those that would have a say, like it as much as teams.

 

[isucy86]

Obviously the NBA owners and the union felt otherwise and rightly so.

Of course the union felt different! HS guys were taking money and roster spots from longtime veterans.

Look around the NBA, there are 10+ year veterans making low-end coin and playing 10 mpg. The union loves that because that means more money for players 4-8 on an NBA roster.

 

[cykadelic2]

Of course the union felt different! HS guys were taking money and roster spots from longtime veterans.

Look around the NBA, there are 10+ year veterans making low-end coin and playing 10 mpg. The union loves that because that means more money for players 4-8 on an NBA roster.

Still focusing only on the union. NBA owners also rightly determined it was bad business.

 

[isucy86]

Still focusing only on the union. NBA owners also rightly determined it was bad business.

Of course NBA owners would like every draftee to be a year older, it helps them see how a Zion Williamson or Cade Cunningham perform in college. Without a doubt the more they see a player compete against a high level of competition, the better chance they have of their 1st round picks not being a bust. No owner wants to flush money down the drain. But the problem is a lot of college or international lottery picks bust as well- so they are flushing money anyway. But the real issue isn't age, it's the quality of those team's scouting and player talent identification people.

But that is no reason why 18 year old's should not be allowed to enter the draft. If XYZ team is concerned that high school players have a higher bust rate, they should only draft college players! Why restrict what natural forces and analytics will impact anyway.

Look at the MLB baseball draft. Some teams prefer to draft proven college players over high school kids, especially at certain positions. In the 2021 MLB draft 15 of 29 first round picks where HS kids. In the 2020 MLB draft, only 11 of 29 first round picks were HS players. Why not let "natural selection" happen? Teams will adjust based on their draft success.

In 2019 the NBA owners requested that the age restriction be changed for the 2022 draft. Obviously, that hasn't happened because the Union has not agreed to it. The win/win for both owners and players would be creating a robust minor league system. Combine that with a separate HS draft. Owners would determine signing bonus slots by draft spots and pay a fixed salary. The players union benefits because only a few HS players each year would make the immediate jump to the NBA.