No Troll What We'd Like to See Discussion

[Tre4ISU]

My opinion is that he needs to overhaul his bench. First, he needs to bring in a real defensive coach. I know I've said it a million times but this is a spot similar, albeit a little more dire, to where John Beilein was at Michigan a few years ago. He was loyal to a set of coaches but he realized that it wasn't going to cut it and he reworked his whole bench bringing in Billy Donlan to be a DC, so to speak. Once he left, he replaced him with Yaklich. Prohm will need to do this to survive as it's become abundantly clear, with multiple years of data, that there isn't anyone who is getting through to the team regarding defense. Our team lacks a fundamental understanding of how to play defense. It's not that we aren't talented enough, it's that there isn't an inherent understanding of what to do that leads to reaction rather than thinking.

 

[JP4CY]

OK, I posted this from the preseason party:

Conditt looks good, mentioned his dad.
Sounds like Zion has had an unbelievable summer.
Mentioned Prentiss and Larry.
Said Tyrese is always smiling, such a great team mate.

He did mention that perimeter shooting hasn't been outstanding and we need to hit the boards harder.

The part that's difficult is, I don't think we've fully utilized Conditt, haven't seen much from Zion.
And the shooting and rebounding part is worse than I thought it would be.

 

[Jkclone15]

Lot of good points. Only thing I'll add: I'd like to see them mix up their approach sooner once they start struggling on offense or defense. You don't have to sub anyone out, but maybe after giving up 7 straight points throw in a full court press for a possession or two just to interrupt the negative flow of the game and reset our guys' heads.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I was watching OU/UT last night. UT looks like ISU...hoisting up and missing unnecessary 3pt shots, when they appeared to have a pretty good post player...never got him the ball. OU, on the other hand, was driving the ball to hole, and scoring inside (and got some FTs), with the game on the line, and pulled away in the last 5 minutes.

Lon vs. Shaka...experience vs. not-so-experienced...

If you can't hit 3pt shots, maybe try more 2pt shots...two points is better than no points.

I feel like this obvious and I find myself thinking it every game the last two years. If a passionate fan can see that, what the hell is going on with Prohm and the team to not address it?

 

[knowlesjam]

One of the keys to effective offense is a solid 7 rotation that enables the team to "know" tendencies and practice rotations, lane spacing, and spots. I hate to say it, but what Prohm is doing is what we have long criticized Mad Fran for doing at Iowa...rapid, constant substitutions of 10 or more personnel. You get zero consistency, zero growth, and zero potential to succeed. He needs to settle on a rotation, including one that rotates Haliburton out for a couple of minutes each half, and go from there.

Otherwise, this season is a write-off and you might as well get the young kids as much experience as possible.

 

[TheJackWePack5]

We are 14 games into the season and we still have no identity or idea what lineups are working for us.

There is a lot of throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.

That is EXTREMELY alarming.

 

[MeowingCows]

I was watching OU/UT last night. UT looks like ISU...hoisting up and missing unnecessary 3pt shots, when they appeared to have a pretty good post player...never got him the ball. OU, on the other hand, was driving the ball to hole, and scoring inside (and got some FTs), with the game on the line, and pulled away in the last 5 minutes.

Lon vs. Shaka...experience vs. not-so-experienced...

If you can't hit 3pt shots, maybe try more 2pt shots...two points is better than no points.

Is it a hot take to say Shaka is a measureably worse coach than Prohm? He has infinite resources and recruiting, multiple top-10 classes, and has done... what with them, exactly?

Barnes is doing alright these days, so maybe it's a Texas problem.

 

[brokenloginagain]

Everything starts with defense and rebounding. I don't know if that's coaching-related, player-related, execution-related, effort-related, assistant coaching-related, recruiting-related, or just one horrible bad year/bad luck-related, whatever.

But when teams run a simple pick and roll and get either a dunk or a wide open three, and then can often get a rebound if they miss...I mean all this other stuff just doesn't even matter.

If LW, THT, Solo, Zion, Lewis, etc can't guard their shadow, does it really even matter who the recruits are next year?

 

[SWCy13]

Unfortunately I'm to the point where I view it as the same song & dance every year with this coach. Prohm's teams consistently play with very low defensive energy despite what he preaches - this is either just him giving the fan base lip service, or a severe disconnect between him/his coaching staff and the players. I would argue that given the talent he either inherited, or to his credit with last year's class, brought in, he's underachieved or just had bad teams every year he's been here:

15/16 - With a team that had 5 NBA players on it, 191st in Defensive Rating, 10-8 in the Big 12, and a Sweet 16 berth that was handed to them with victories over a 13 & 12 seed. Complete no-show in the 1st half vs Virginia in the Sweet 16.

16/17 - By far Prohm's best coaching job, though not without significant flaws. 4 NBA players. 127th in Defensive Rating. Another complete no show in the 1st half and took him far too long to adjust to playing small vs Purdue in the Round of 32.

17/18 - This was always going to be a rebuilding year, but horrible defense still a trend - 287th in Defensive rating. Also lost to Milwaukee by 18 points in Hilton.

18/19 - 4 NBA/G League players. 125th in Defensive Rating. 9-9 in the Big 12, underachieved all year. Inconsistent effort and poor decision making by the team all year. Butchered the Lindell Wigginton injury situation. Lost to an average-bad Ohio State team.

19/20 - Dumpster Fire. Lottery pick @ PG. 185th in Defensive Rating. Worst loss in program history. Heading towards the second last place Big 12 finish in the last 3 years.

Obviously this is a more negatively-skewed view of things, but I wouldn't say it's harsh in any way. We haven't finished better than 125th in Defensive Rating (out of 351 teams) in any of Prohm's years. And we've consistently had NBA level players and have 1 Sweet Sixteen, in which we had to beat two mid-majors to get there, to show for it. I just don't see a ton of light at the end of the tunnel unless there's a coaching change.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Is it a hot take to say Shaka is a measureably worse coach than Prohm? He has infinite resources and recruiting, multiple top-10 classes, and has done... what with them, exactly?

Barnes is doing alright these days, so maybe it's a Texas problem.

I think it’s a Texas problem mostly and Shaka has lost the identity that made his early VCU teams great.

I think we have some talent on this team, but it is not being utilized correctly. Players are not being held accountable, lineups we throw out there don't make any sense, and players don't know their roles. In short, our players are not being put in a position to be successful.

I'm not saying this team should be an NCAA lock, even while playing their best, but they should have at least been a bubble team/NIT team.

My thoughts:

-Prentiss Nixon doesn't know what his role is. He is not a scorer/3pt shooter. Encourage him to focus on defense/taking charges and shoot that mid range jumper and floater which seem to work best for him.
-TH needs to be going to the rim more and looking for his shot. He is also a great spot up shooter, so maybe run some sets with Bolton drawing the defense and kicking out to TH for open shots once in a while.
-Grill and Jackson - limited minutes to help their growth and NEVER on the court at the same time.
-Conditt - needs to start and play the most of all the centers. Would like to see the pick and roll run with him and Bolton at times (instead of always TH). Run that pick and roll and I'll guarantee you that TH would be open on the wing.
-Solomon Young - work on his pick and roll defense. He is one of our best post defenders but struggles getting back quickly on pick and roll defensive rotations. I would also encourage him on offense to continue taking that mid-range jumper but also start posting up deep and taking it to the rim. Maybe draw some fouls.
-Griffin and Lewis - more minutes. Both guys have shown some effort and moving without the ball. Have them focus on crashing the boards.
-Jacobson- I have no idea what happened to him this year, but he should not be starting at this point. I would have Conditt starting in his place.

Just my non-coaching experience opinions.

I really think identity and putting players in positions to succeed are what’s lacking. There just doesn’t seem to be a plan.
I also wanted to specifically add I still think Solo is really good. The problem is I think he needs to be told to score. He’s to passive there. I also think he does way more dirty work than he gets credit for. He’s really the only player to consistently box out. He may not get the rebounds himself but he does do a good job of leaving it open for others to grab.

 

[GTO]

I think it’s a Texas problem mostly and Shaka has lost the identity that made his early VCU teams great.

I really think identity and putting players in positions to succeed are what’s lacking. There just doesn’t seem to be a plan.
I also wanted to specifically add I still think Solo is really good. The problem is I think he needs to be told to score. He’s to passive there. I also think he does way more dirty work than he gets credit for. He’s really the only player to consistently box out. He may not get the rebounds himself but he does do a good job of leaving it open for others to grab.

Completely agree on Solo. Prohm has no idea what to do with post players.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

One of the keys to effective offense is a solid 7 rotation that enables the team to "know" tendencies and practice rotations, lane spacing, and spots. I hate to say it, but what Prohm is doing is what we have long criticized Mad Fran for doing at Iowa...rapid, constant substitutions of 10 or more personnel. You get zero consistency, zero growth, and zero potential to succeed. He needs to settle on a rotation, including one that rotates Haliburton out for a couple of minutes each half, and go from there.

Otherwise, this season is a write-off and you might as well get the young kids as much experience as possible.

I feel like we're already there.

 

[ForbinsAscynt]

While I think there is only like a 10% chance he gets fired that would be my vote.
Call TJ and Hornacek. After that raid mid majors. There are plenty of options better than Prohm and I don’t enjoy saying that.

 

[cycloneworld]

Everyone has done a great job of outlining what we need to get better at but mine is much bigger picture. Prohm is so stubborn and resistant to change that he trots the same lineup, substitution patter, etc. out every game - no matter if its working or not. He let's the players take the same shots and make the same mistakes without any consequences.

You'd figure after you realize we aren't a good 3-pt shooting team that Prohm would adjust and tell the guys not to shoot so many 3s. But instead, we continue to jack up 25-30 3s per game. That makes no sense.

The definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results definitely applies here.

 

[jbhtexas]

Is it a hot take to say Shaka is a measureably worse coach than Prohm? He has infinite resources and recruiting, multiple top-10 classes, and has done... what with them, exactly?

Barnes is doing alright these days, so maybe it's a Texas problem.

I find it interesting that Prohm and Shaka are both successful mid-major coaches struggling at the P5 level with similar issues.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Let’s just make a few assumptions right away to frame the discussion:

1. We aren’t going to crap on players. They are doing their best. I absolutely respect the heck out of every one of them, most of whom came from somewhere a long way away to a place they didn’t know to try and achieve a dream.
2. Prohm isn’t going to get fired after this year.
3. Hoiberg isn’t coming back.
4. TH is going pro.
5. This season, for all intents and purposes, is over. They can shuffle the pieces around on the team, start one guy over another, etc, but let’s be honest, it’s not going to make much of a difference.

Now, for what I’d like to see for 2021:

1. Identity on defense. The departure of TH will be the last departing plus player on offense. For all of Prohm’s talk about being tough, gritty, defensive minded… he has not been able to effectively communicate it. He needs to fire an assistant and bring in a guy to instill that mindset in this team. If he doesn’t do this, he’ll be fired anyway and players will likely transfer out, so he needs to do this even if it drives guys away.
2. Also on this, we tried a bunch of defenses yesterday that I thought were just doomed to failure. The Young/MJ two bigs doubling the opposing big was an alley oop machine. The zone was a disaster. That said, I think we need to lean into that zone next year. We go full Baylor. Foster/Conditt down low, Johnson or Blackwell on the edges, and a consistently feisty Jackson at the point. I honestly think we’ll have to play 90’s Knicks basketball, slow it down, grind it out, work from the inside out.
3. We absolutely need Jackson to develop a 3 point shot. He’s struggling mightily right now but I like what I’m seeing from him from an effort and tenacity level. Honestly I think he’s the only guy actually playing like Prohm wants this team to right now.

If this team is going to have success going forward, the identity of the team needs to change. If it doesn’t next year and we roll the ball out the same way we are this year without TH, that’s going to be one of the worst teams in the modern history of the program. It’s up to Prohm to figure that out or get fired. I do think there are kids that want to defend the legacy of Hilton on this team and I’m sure this isn’t what they pictured when they signed up for this.

I also think we should honestly just be nice and not freak out the rest of the way. This year is what it is. No use getting pissed about it.

This team is short on talent, lacks toughness, can't shoot and appears to not execute in games. But what I think this team REALLY needs is player-led leadership and I don't see that person anywhere on the roster.

Hali is a special talent but he doesn't have any "nasty" in him. MJ tries and while SY has the tools to back it up, he's not able to be that pigbuttnasty player.

The rest of this year should just be about creating the toughness attitude however the hell you can.

Lotta new faces next year and we NEED some veteran leadership from the get-go and we can't waiver on toughness.

 

[mplueg]

Completely agree on Solo. Prohm has no idea what to do with post players.

Personally, I don’t see it! Solomon has never been a good rebounder. That’s partly on him and partly on coaching in my opinion. I haven’t seen anyone box out on this team. Rebounding is more effort than anything. Sure weight and height help but if you don’t try your not going to get many. Conditt actually goes for the rebound and gets several I believe because his effort is far superior to that of Young and Jacobson. Young tries to bat rebounds out in my opinion instead of showing effort and actually boxing out and going to get them. In his defense, that’s usually his only option when Phrom sends everyone in the other direction and Young is trying to rebound against 4 players on the opposing team. That strategy clearly doesn’t work when we can’t make shots!

 

[2forISU]

All indications are that that 'performance' in the Bahamas wasn't really that great judging by what the other teams have done since, although Seton Hall's still pretty good.

Michigan is still a tourney team(currently10-4) and they will be in the middle of the pack of the Big10. Bama(currently 8-6) is an NIT team if I had to guess based on their remaining schedule.

 

[Carlisle Clone]

Too many players have the "green light" to launch shots whenever they feel like it. You see 3 players hang their heads while getting back on defense because they are frustrated having seen another bad shot taken. Really deflating.

Also, these guys think they are playing good defense in games. Look at them when a guy makes a shot that they think was contested. They drop or shake their head. The thing is, when practicing against each other that so called "good defense" they think they are playing is really just a product of not having any shooters.

 

[atlantacyclone]

We clearly have an in-game coaching issue. We have talent. It appears that our coaching isn't matching with our assets. Gone are the days of calling a TO and having a great play to counter a run by the opposing team. That is what we are missing. We have done a good job getting the players to Ames. The time is now to put them in position to win.