Star Wars episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker

[Sigmapolis]

I disagree with your assertion that the sequels are objectively bad movies. They may not have met your personal expectations as a mega fan, but they are good flicks that resurrected a franchise. They did a pretty good job of carrying on the story of the main characters and providing an ending for them, which we can all agree is a tough task.

Now, the prequels? The 3rd has its moments. The other two were really bad.

I am glad we agree the prequels are basically unwatchable.

I would not call myself a superfan, though.

I never got into the Expanded Universe, have no memorabilia, and when I rewatched the OT relatively recently I was fully aware that they have their flaws. I might even be in the camp to be able to call them "dated" by 2019 standards. Some of the effects have not aged into the HD era very well, the dialogue is inconsistent at best, and some of the acting is just bad. Luke and Leia making out with each other is such a cringe moment.

Some things have aged well, and particularly the soundtrack. William's rewrite of Wagner and Holst completely makes the emotional tone.

Thanks for my first ever Cyclone Fanatic DUMB rating! I always wondered when I'd get my first one and what it would be for.

Sorry you only like movies if they are considered all time great movies. I spend my days on Netflix watching incredibly terrible Sci Fi movies just because I like the genre. The star wars pequels and sequels seem like masterpieces compared to many of those, so my standards are low.

Whether or not it was intended or bad writing, Palpatine was the only person alive both in the phantom menace and still kicking in the Rise of Skywalker. The 9 movie series shows how HIS empire was created, HIS empire at its strongest, and how HIS final order was destroyed. He might not have physically been in A New Hope and the Empire Strikes back, but it is his empire.

He might not have physically been in The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi, but he was the puppet master pulling the strings of Snoke and it is his first order. It's also his granddaughter that causes his demise. She adopts the skywalker name, but she is a Palpatine. Seems to me they planned it that way.

No the sequels aren't as good as the originals, but it helps me to appreciate them more to think of all 9 movies as about an evil sith lord finding a way to power and meeting his ultimate demise by his own family.

Oh, trust me, I am not a snob about only liking "all-timers." I love me some good and campy B-movie fare, particularly in the science fiction or horror genres. Even the bad ones you can give the MST3K treatment yourself while watching.

The first six movies do what you describe for Palpy. The Rise of Skywalker redoes that whole six-movie arc over the course of a half of a movie because they wrote themselves into a corner without a bad guy for IX and decided to undo The Return of the Jedi. That brings us back to my fundamental problem with the Jar Jar Abrams adaptations.

The problem with the prequels is that they are incompetently executed for a host of dramatic and technical reasons. They are confusing, boring, awkward, and ugly. The problem with the sequels is they are the antithesis of immersive. Despite some of my problems with the OT as it ages above, it is still an immersive world that you can settle your mind into. The complete lack of imagination and the constant callbacks in 7 and 9 to the OT and even the prequels just takes me out of the movie again and again and again.

I want to go to a grand, epic fantasy adventure/space opera to lose myself in that world for 2-2.5 hours, not be reminded I am watching a movie over and over again.

If the sequels had been more like the first Star Trek remake (e.g., lightweight and breezy but an effective, enjoyable action film with a charming young cast that was not derivative of other parts of the Star Trek canon) or Rogue One (which told its own story and worked as more of a WWII action film or the like), then I have no doubt I would have accepted or approved of the Star Wars sequels. I was not looking for perfection.

I just received junk.

 

[Rabbuk]

Did the whole teleporting items thing bother anyone else

 

[3GenClone]

Did the whole teleporting items thing bother anyone else

Not at all - in fact, I thought that whole aspect of the force in this trilogy was done really well. I’m glad they introduced something new regarding the force that wasn’t running super fast or Yoda spinning around.

 

[Die4Cy]

Did the whole teleporting items thing bother anyone else

I always have to sort of laugh when people come out of their movie about galaxy conquering space aliens with planet destroying ships who can shoot lightning from their fingertips, that say stuff like this.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

I always have to sort of laugh when people come out of their movie about galaxy conquering space aliens with planet destroying ships who can shoot lightning from their fingertips, that say stuff like this.

Problems with that line of thinking is there has to be limits somewhere or things stop mattering. If literally everything is possible, dramatic tension is impossible. It becomes a game of just waiting to see what new ridiculous event occurs to save the heroes. That works for comedy and standalone stories that go all-in on the craziness of such a scenario. It doesn't work as well for world-building something that is going to be around for multiple books/movies/shows.

Like you, though, I think the difference in where people start to feel the effects of this in movies can be funny.

 

[3GenClone]

I’ve had 24 hours to reflect now, so here are my thoughts:

I do not regret seeing this in theaters. If you are on the fence I recommend seeing it sooner rather than later. I think the “shared experience” of seeing a movie in theaters really helps with the overall enjoyment of the film.

With that being said, this movie is probably the least re-watchable of the new trilogy. I think there are too many questions that you could come up with on repeated viewings.

One thing I absolutely hated - the entire trilogy trivializes the role of Darth Vader in the Skywalker story arch. I didn’t mind the prequels in that it gave us backstory to Anakin/Darth Vader. This new trilogy almost completely ignores that character and that did not sit well with me.

I really think there was a different ending in mind and that got vetoed due to perceived feedback

Spoiler: Potential ending

The movie really flirted with the fact that there were stormtroopers like Finn ready to mutiny. This is only an assumption, but I thought the likelihood of the rebels winning was dependent on the stormtroopers turning against the First Order. There were definitely hints to that and I think that got squashed as being perceived as a fairly “liberal” ending. I don’t want to make this a political discussion, but it definitely seemed like it could have ended that way. I think if it were done tactfully that would have been an appropriate ending, but given the current political climate it was way too risky for Disney to pull off.

 

[mcblogerson]

Am I supposed to believe the Emperor is dead now, when he wasnt before, when he’s able to move his consciousness to other people or clones or whatever?

if so why? Thats the part I dont get.

 

[nocsious3]

That's a cop out. JJ had every opportunity to do all 3 movies and he chose not to. He easily could have continued things in a logical way from tlj, but that would require a different story than return of the Jedi part 2.

Fan service is not a new term. It's giving fans something that makes them feel good. This can be done well, but in this case comes at the cost of the story quality. Non-fans won't care that chewy got a medal or that Like could lift an x-wing now. Neither truly add value to the movie from a narrative standpoint - they are unnecessary. The quality of the script suffered in their attempts to appease fans - it's a bunch of references and allusions to past films with a thin viel of a story that doesn't hold up under logical scrutiny.

I get where you are coming from and don't disagree for the most part. Everything should have been better. A coherent story and significant character development are absent. What I'm saying is that the Rise of Skywalker had so little usable framework from 7 and 8, that I didn't expect even a watchable movie. My criticism of the prequels was not the overall story, but just that Lucas sucks at writing dialogue and the acting was sub-par. My biggest criticism of 7,8,9 is poor story writing and horrible character development. I didn't hate the Rise of Skywalker, but that's a pretty low bar...even the visual effects where meh in this one.

I will give props to JJ Abrams on how he handled Leia. His hands were really tied on that. In the end we are left with a bunch of characters that I don't have much interest in at all. Finn isn't that interesting. Rose is a throwaway character. Poe Dameron is a cliche. Rey is still a Mary Sue. The only Disney film that I found to be a somewhat solid was Rogue One.

 

[nocsious3]

Am I supposed to believe the Emperor is dead now, when he wasnt before, when he’s able to move his consciousness to other people or clones or whatever?

if so why? Thats the part I dont get.

I think the problem with this part of the story is that it's just presented in an abrupt way and we're just supposed to accept it. This part of the story needed to be set up over the first two films to some degree. It rings hollow.

 

[erikbj]

They should have let the dark side win. It’s like watching the Harlem Globetrotters, it’s gets old.

they had a chance to blow everyone’s mind and make more money I mean movies

 

[Bader]

Rey is still a Mary Sue.

I do not get this criticism. If Rey is a Mary Sue, Luke is a Mary Sue

 

[bawbie]

Am I supposed to believe the Emperor is dead now, when he wasnt before, when he’s able to move his consciousness to other people or clones or whatever?

if so why? Thats the part I dont get.

because the series is over, duh.

 

[bos]

Am I supposed to believe the Emperor is dead now, when he wasnt before, when he’s able to move his consciousness to other people or clones or whatever?

if so why? Thats the part I dont get.

Well he fell down a pit and we never saw him die. In this one he melted to nothing. I think that’s a visible death scenario. This basically showed that he though he had everything in control and reached unmatched power. Surprise to him that his granddaughter switched on blood destiny and outmatches him for good. After decades of arrogant plotting he was thwarted. Thought it was a solid brutal ending to that guy.

 

[bawbie]

I do not get this criticism. If Rey is a Mary Sue, Luke is a Mary Sue

I don’t see how the term isn’t straight up misogyny, for the reason you point out.

 

[Sigmapolis]

You all trying to invent explanations for Disney hacks about reincarnating a space warlock is pretty amusing, I do have to say.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

I do not get this criticism. If Rey is a Mary Sue, Luke is a Mary Sue

Luke fails and gets his hand chopped off. His powers aren't strong enough to defeat his enemies so he has to change his approach to achieve anything. He grows as a character. His power develops, yes. However, he knows failure, grows as a character, and changes his approach because his enemies are still more powerful than him. For the original Star Wars, maybe he is. But for the entire original trilogy he isn't a Mary Sue.

Rey succeeds at everything she does and is essentially the same person throughout the entire trilogy. She quickly becomes super-powered beyond any other Jedi we've seen - even those who trained their entire lives with her only training being on an island semi-neglected by Luke and by Leia for less than a year. That's not exactly a Mary Sue, but a darn sight closer to one than Luke is beyond the first movie.

 

[Bader]

You all trying to invent explanations for Disney hacks about reincarnating a space warlock is pretty amusing, I do have to say.

A total of one post offering up an opinion.

Everyone back to screeching about how space knights have been ruined. DiDnEy WaR

 

[bawbie]

You all trying to invent explanations for Disney hacks about reincarnating a space warlock is pretty amusing, I do have to say.

why does it offend you so much that the “hacks” work for Disney and not another studio? It’s just a weird obsession.

 

[Bader]

Luke fails and gets his hand chopped off. His powers aren't strong enough to defeat his enemies so he has to change his approach to achieve anything. He grows as a character. His power develops, yes. However, he knows failure, grows as a character, and changes his approach because his enemies are still more powerful than him. That's not a Mary Sue.

Rey succeeds at everything she does and is essentially the same person throughout the entire trilogy. She quickly becomes super-powered beyond any other Jedi we've seen - even those who trained their entire lives with her only training being on an island semi-neglected by Luke and by Leia for less than a year. That's a Mary Sue.

Luke getting his hand chopped off has zero effect on him or his development. It’s a shock in the moment. What does he change after experiencing failure?

 

[Rogue52]

Tons of articles out there with ideas for Disney on “rebooting” Star Wars to varying degrees.