Star Wars episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker
- Thread starter NorthCyd
- Start date
Nope.
The Emperor was a vague and ethereal figure in A New Hope and rather light in his presence in The Empire Strikes Back. Lucas created him to (1.) fulfill the "master's master" trope from The Hero with a Thousand Faces, as with Yoda being master to Obi-Wan being master to Luke, only on the Dark Side, and (2.) an unrecoverable villain gave dramatic room to the plot of Luke attempting to redeem Vader in The Empire Strikes Back and throughout Return of the Jedi, so the Emperor was a needed narrative device.
He was, of course, a strong part of the prequels.
Palpatine was gone -- 100% -- in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.
They brought him back for The Rise of Skywalker because (1.) Jar Jar Abrams is a hack who decided that remaking The Return of the Jedi was easier than watching some old Flash Gordon serials for other ideas to steal, (2.) they needed a villain for the finale and suddenly found themselves without one, and (3.) they're lazy and don't care if their new film completely undoes and trivializes The Return of the Jedi, so they "broke glass in case of emergency" and brought him back for no other reason than Star Wars is basically a reformed dinosaur rock band playing the same songs they did in the 1970s only not nearly as well or with the same spirit, attitude, and experimental edges of the original iteration.
I know the Baby Boomers were nostalgic about their own childhoods as early as 1973 with American Graffiti and Happy Days, which premiered in 1974, but this is ridiculous. And then you have kids, who are just stupid through really not fault of their own, who do not realize what derivative pap this is. I guess that is where we are as a culture.
They probably wanted Supreme Leader Andy Serkis for this to be the nonredeemable bad guy because they were sending the guy from Girls on the redemption path, in a boring retread of the same character and story arcs followed by Vader in the OT, but Johnson killed Gollum so they had to scramble to make a new one with absolutely no time to develop it. Eh, nobody is ever really dead in this universe, which comes in handy for writing yourself out of dead ends and pretending previous, better movies never happened.
Do not buy into a cheap narrative device like that being planned or somehow making the saga about Palpy instead of the Skywalker family.
I don’t get it- you post page after page of opinions about a movie series you appear to utterly despise. Why? Why even watch or think about something you dislike so strongly?
my other thought reading this thread: what the **** is “fan service”? It seems like another made up term to explain something someone disagrees with.
in the end, I think I just watch movies differently than many people and I just don’t understand them. I’ve liked all the SW movies because they’re enjoyable and fun to watch.
I can think of a certain public figure that you despise yet you spend oodles and oodles of time posting things about that certain public figure.
Why...?
It seems disliking something does not preclude one (and you included) from discussing it. Heck, most of the sports posts on here are about hating Iowa or Prohm.
I find deconstructing the art, entertainment, business, and cultural elements of film interesting. Watching Disney flub this is like an entertaining business school unit for me, and the high demand for reheated nostalgia is interesting to me.
I have no problem with people who enjoyed 7-9 as popcorn entertainment. Have at it.
But when somebody says there was a deeper meaning there or some sort of plan from a dramatic or thematic standpoint, I have to either laugh or cry a little inside.
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Let me preface this by saying I hated The Last Jedi. Episode 7 and 8 were mostly devoid of character development, resemblance of a unique plot in episode 7, and I think 8 tried to take a dump on Star Wars. I give JJ credit for polishing a turd in 9. It was forced and rushed in plot because it had to be. It was watchable and that's more than I expected.
That's a cop out. JJ had every opportunity to do all 3 movies and he chose not to. He easily could have continued things in a logical way from tlj, but that would require a different story than return of the Jedi part 2.
Fan service is not a new term. It's giving fans something that makes them feel good. This can be done well, but in this case comes at the cost of the story quality. Non-fans won't care that chewy got a medal or that Like could lift an x-wing now. Neither truly add value to the movie from a narrative standpoint - they are unnecessary. The quality of the script suffered in their attempts to appease fans - it's a bunch of references and allusions to past films with a thin viel of a story that doesn't hold up under logical scrutiny.
Fan service may be the only bankable thing when trying to make a profitable film for a dedicated fan base who scours every scene to find every detail that they don't like.
It's a unique thing to Star War movie fan discussion going back as far as I can remember. The movies get worse when they try and cater to what loud online folks demand Star Wars to be.
This was a good, enjoyable film that fully hit the right tone to feel like a Star Wars movie. The individual performances were all significantly improved, even with the plot problems, and that makes a better movie in the end. I went to it with low expectations and was pleasantly surprised, and I would watch it again. But I read the r/StarWars reviews and it's apparent no real movie will ever be as good there as their own lame head canon.
I remain hopeful that there are more, unrelated stories in the galaxy far far away that can now be told without so much energy from online fans tied up in them. The Mandalorian is off to a good start. Give us some more.
First watch last night. I enjoyed the heck out of it. Was it perfect? no. Was it fun? yes. Is bring Palpatine back a cop out? Maybe. Do I care? No. And if Chew finally getting the Medal he deserved for the role he played in rescuing Princess Leia and taking out the 1st Death Star was fan service than this Star Wars fan feels very served. And I am glad that they didn't kill Chewie. He isn't allowed to die. So screw you.
Yeah. Palestine came back out of nowhere. Since Snoke was dead. it allowed for a path to redemption for Ren who was probably the best character in the sequels trilogy (helluva actor too). But it still worked, and was a good way to challenge Rey with converting to the dark side.
We enjoyed the movie and thought it was a great closer for the trilogy. Probably because we didn’t over analyze every part of the plot or the writers. Just happy to get a great Star Wars trilogy after the subpar prequels.
The sequels and the prequels are all bad -- just for different sets of reasons. But if you enjoyed it and found it entertaining, then you do you, friend.
Ian McDiarmid is great, definitely, but I just wish he had better material to work with (in every film outside of the OT). Heck, I have liked most of the talent in the sequel films from their other work (e.g., Daisy Ridley is adorable and an underrated actress, and I loved Oscar Isaac in Annihilation and A Most Violent Year, and I am looking forward to him as Duke Leto Atreides in the Dune adaptation next year).
I just wish they were given more to work with from a competent story/writers.
Glad some enjoyed it. I enjoyed it for what it was. Different feeling after coming out of the prequels though. The story of the prequels/ originals made me want to know more. I wanted the story to continue and find out what happened. I walked out of this trilogy not caring what happens from here and hoping they do a large time skip if they continue the story.
The sequels and the prequels are all bad -- just for different sets of reasons. But if you enjoyed it and found it entertaining, then you do you, friend.
Ian McDiarmid is great, definitely, but I just wish he had better material to work with (in every film outside of the OT). Heck, I have liked most of the talent in the sequel films from their other work (e.g., Daisy Ridley is adorable and an underrated actress, and I loved Oscar Isaac in Annihilation and A Most Violent Year, and I am looking forward to him as Duke Leto Atreides in the Dune adaptation next year).
I just wish they were given more to work with from a competent story/writers.
I disagree with your assertion that the sequels are objectively bad movies. They may not have met your personal expectations as a mega fan, but they are good flicks that resurrected a franchise. They did a pretty good job of carrying on the story of the main characters and providing an ending for them, which we can all agree is a tough task.
Now, the prequels? The 3rd has its moments. The other two were really bad.
Star Wars movies as ranked by Rotten Tomatoes audience scores:
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One/The Force Awakens (tied)
Rise of Skywalker
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One/The Force Awakens (tied)
Rise of Skywalker
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi
By arobb score:
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Everything else.
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Everything else.
I find it best to average the critics score and the audience score. I like good story's the way the critics do, but also like being entertained like audiences do.
Empire Strikes Back 95.5
A New Hope 94.5
The Force Awakens 89.5
Return of the Jedi 88
Rogue One 84.5
Revenge of Sith 73
Rise of Skywalker 71.5
The Last Jedi 67
Solo 66.5
Attack of the Clones 60.5
Phantom Menace 56
Usually movies in the 90s go down as all time greats, 80s are good movies worth watching, 70s are watchable, 60s & 50s you better like the genre, anything 40s and under watch at your own risk.
Empire Strikes Back 95.5
A New Hope 94.5
The Force Awakens 89.5
Return of the Jedi 88
Rogue One 84.5
Revenge of Sith 73
Rise of Skywalker 71.5
The Last Jedi 67
Solo 66.5
Attack of the Clones 60.5
Phantom Menace 56
Usually movies in the 90s go down as all time greats, 80s are good movies worth watching, 70s are watchable, 60s & 50s you better like the genre, anything 40s and under watch at your own risk.
Thanks for my first ever Cyclone Fanatic DUMB rating! I always wondered when I'd get my first one and what it would be for.
Sorry you only like movies if they are considered all time great movies. I spend my days on Netflix watching incredibly terrible Sci Fi movies just because I like the genre. The star wars pequels and sequels seem like masterpieces compared to many of those, so my standards are low.
Whether or not it was intended or bad writing, Palpatine was the only person alive both in the phantom menace and still kicking in the Rise of Skywalker. The 9 movie series shows how HIS empire was created, HIS empire at its strongest, and how HIS final order was destroyed. He might not have physically been in A New Hope and the Empire Strikes back, but it is his empire.
He might not have physically been in The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi, but he was the puppet master pulling the strings of Snoke and it is his first order. It's also his granddaughter that causes his demise. She adopts the skywalker name, but she is a Palpatine. Seems to me they planned it that way.
No the sequels aren't as good as the originals, but it helps me to appreciate them more to think of all 9 movies as about an evil sith lord finding a way to power and meeting his ultimate demise by his own family.
Old enough to be annoyed by jar jar, poor chemistry between love interests, and bad cgi. Also old enough to appreciate an interesting story.
The latest movie was like 2 hours of jar jar fighting the Droid army. The only thing saving the heroes from their own incompetence is the incompetence of their enemies and a truly miraculous amount of nonsensical plot armor.
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