CF STAFF CHAT: Discussing the Iowa loss and season outlook

[Tommy Cicero]

First time poster... long time reader. The game last night combined with some reactions on here sent me over the edge.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to see Cyclone fans making comments about Iowa clearly "wanting it more". If that's the case then lets get rid of everyone and start from scratch. This is major college basketball. I'm sure some of what I've read is trolling, but it's a horrible excuse no matter how you slice it.

Maybe this is the Midwest in me, but the one thing every single player on that floor has control over is their effort and attitude. Talent has nothing to do with attitude and effort. There is no excuse for the lackluster effort we saw out of the Cyclones last night. Prohm said he didn't have the team ready. The players also said they weren't ready to play. Well... excuse me, but why the F not!? There is no excuse for that. It's disappointing to hear them admit it and frankly it's a giant red flag for me. If Prohm can't get his team amped up and ready to play a big game in Hilton then he needs to go. Period. End of story.

Iowa has a good team. I think it's pretty clear they have the better team. There's a good chance the Cyclones lose last night even if they would have shown up and given tremendous effort, but the crap we witnessed last night in front of a sold out Hilton was seriously disappointing.

 

[CloneGuy8]

Efforts like last night are not going to win over the fan base, especially at home against an instate rival. Apathy will set in within the fan base if we see more efforts like that.

 

[CyBobby]

Anyone who thinks this team is dancing is out of their god damned mind. 5 years from now, last night will be remembered as the beginning of Steve Prohm's end at ISU.

We're not even going .500. This is the worst ISU team since McDermott.

Since McDermott...Are you kidding me ...Last Night Was Ken Trickey and Lynn Nance territory except of course for a full Hilton.......

 

[rochclone]

Since McDermott...Are you kidding me ...Last Night Was Ken Trickey and Lynn Nance territory except of course for a full Hilton.......

Yeah this team is much more talented then what you give it credit for.

 

[quasistellar]

Yeah this team is much more talented then what you give it credit for.

You can have all the talent in the world, but if it's squandered, you may as well have never had it. In the end, we're judged on results, NOT potential. At some point you are what your record indicates you are.

 

[Cyrealist]

You can have all the talent in the world, but if it's squandered, you may as well have never had it. In the end, we're judged on results, NOT potential. At some point you are what your record indicates you are.

This team is talented enough to make the NCAA Tourney and otherwise have a good season. But they won't because of the following problems:
- Inconsistency, inconsistency, inconsistency I saw many players give a good effort and be very effective for a 2 or 3 minute stretch and then disappear again for 8 to 10. Solomon Young was absolutely killing us on both ends of the floor, including that DUMB technical, but for 2 or 3 minutes he looked good. That's a lack of mental toughness.
- Wrong guys shooting the wrong shots
- Apparent unwillingness of players to accept roles. Jacobson was great last year as a rebounder and garbage man under the basket. This year he's out jacking up Threes. He looks out of shape to me also.

These problems have been the hallmark of CSP's teams since he's been here. I don't know why anyone thinks they'll get better this year or any other.

 

[CyCloned]

The unfortunate truth is that ISU lost a lot of talent last year, and the guys they are trying to replace them with are either not very good or not ready to play. Look at how much ISU is relying on Sophomores and freshman. Haliburton, Condett, Grill, Jackson, Bolton, and Griffin are all underclassman. Sure that are some seniors, but Young was never going to be a scorer, same with Jacobson, and NIxon, while willing to shoot a lot, is not much of a maker, although he is still shooting way worst than last year. Not sure what is going on with Lewis, but I know in the past his defense has not been good.

It is just something that is going to be painful to watch for a while. Maybe once guys settle down a little they will start shooting better. Defense will probably improve as these guys get more used to playing together. Remember, Haliburton is pretty much all ISU has back in terms of scoring from last year.

 

[EarthIsMan]

Some comments and factoids:

If Prohm gets this team to the NCAA tourney, it would be a hell of a coaching job. Maybe the Prohm dislike would subside? Unlikely, but if Prohm hasn't proven his worth yet...what will?

Morgan's 2005 team finished the season shooting 29.2% from 3. They made it to the 2nd round in the NCAA tourney.......currently, ISU is shooting 29.3% from 3.

3 point shooting is fickle: The 2016 Villanova team was shooting 28.4% from 3 by December 12 of that national championship season. While that Villanova team was not shooting great from 3, like ISU they

1) had a great 2-point %
2) good FT shooting %
3) healthy # of 3 point attempts and
4) very low in turnovers​

....which are all positive predictors of future 3 pt shooting success. This ISU team will improve on 3 pt %, but the answer is to keep shooting them despite some posters saying the contrary. Nixon & Bolton have a pretty large sample size from previous seasons which suggest they are plus 3 pt shooters. FWIW, ISU is around the median when it comes to 3PA/FGA (37.8%) where as the 2016 Villanova nearly led the nation in 3PA/FGA (42.7%) while only finishing the season shooting 36.2% from 3 (which was 105th best of 351 teams).

There is some hope for this team, but it is a matter of players buying into their roles or simplifying them, being put in schemes to succeed, and forming an coherent team identity.

 

[FDCy83]

I have not watched much of this team this year. Too much other stuff going on. I watched Iowa game. I saw Young trying to post up and almost never getting the ball down low. Iowa is a significantly different team without Garza, and my experience says shooting the 3 is easier off of an inside out pass. Shooter is already facing the basket and leaning forward to catch, rise up, and shoot. Seems pushing it inside and then kicking out is something we don't do.

Young seemed to get the ball so little that when he did get it, he only thought of scoring. He has the bigger body to possibly draw fouls on Garza and could also be an assist machine if we pounded it inside and then kicked out many times a game. I do not like offense that is 4 guys standing around the outside waiting for a screen or chucking up a 3. At least move it side to side, inside and out some, especially against the zone. High and low post against the zone was our best offense, but only did it a few times.

It is like coach has decided how we are going to play offensively and will not adjust to who we are playing. We have to make efforts to either use any individual position advantage we have or do something to weaken the opponent, such as foul trouble.

 

[Tornado man]

3 point shooting is fickle: The 2016 Villanova team was shooting 28.4% from 3 by December 12 of that national championship season. While that Villanova team was not shooting great from 3, like ISU they

1) had a great 2-point %
2) good FT shooting %
3) healthy # of 3 point attempts and
4) very low in turnovers​

....which are all positive predictors of future 3 pt shooting success. This ISU team will improve on 3 pt %, but the answer is to keep shooting them despite some posters saying the contrary,

Well of course there is that other 50% of basketball - the defensive end of the floor, where Villanova virtually shut teams down on the way to NCAA titles in 2016 and '18. That's how they won championships.
It's hard to even compare Nova's defensive intensity and effort to that of ISU's.
I'd say they're a solar system apart...

 

[Urbandale2013]

Solomon Young was absolutely killing us on both ends of the floor, including that DUMB technical, but for 2 or 3 minutes he looked good.

What the **** are you talking about. Young got called for a ridiculously weak flagrant 1 because the Iowa player ran into his arm. I’d have to rewatch but Young is one of the most underrated players on the team. He doesn’t do the big play but he is really important to the teams success.

 

[EarthIsMan]

Well of course there is that other 50% of basketball - the defensive end of the floor, where Villanova virtually shut teams down on the way to NCAA titles in 2016 and '18. That's how they won championships.
It's hard to even compare Nova's defensive intensity and effort to that of ISU's.
I'd say they're a solar system apart...

If you had reading comprehension, I was only using Villanova early 2016 3 point shooting woes as an example that ISU is better than the current 3 pt shooting %. Compared nothing else to ISU and Villanova. Why are you talking about Villanova’s defense and winning championships, again?

 

[Cyfern]

Here's a peek inside the CF Slack discussion. Enjoy.

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2019/12/cf-staff-chat-discussing-the-iowa-loss-and-season-outlook/

We SUCK!!!!!

 

[IASTATE07]

If Prohm gets this team to the NCAA tourney, it would be a hell of a coaching job. Maybe the Prohm dislike would subside? Unlikely, but if Prohm hasn't proven his worth yet...what will?

Nothing will ever be good enough for a certain faction of the fanbase. I can't imagine feeling that miserable about my team all the time.

 

[sheepplucker]

Some comments and factoids:

If Prohm gets this team to the NCAA tourney, it would be a hell of a coaching job. Maybe the Prohm dislike would subside? Unlikely, but if Prohm hasn't proven his worth yet...what will?

Morgan's 2005 team finished the season shooting 29.2% from 3. They made it to the 2nd round in the NCAA tourney.......currently, ISU is shooting 29.3% from 3.

3 point shooting is fickle: The 2016 Villanova team was shooting 28.4% from 3 by December 12 of that national championship season. While that Villanova team was not shooting great from 3, like ISU they

1) had a great 2-point %
2) good FT shooting %
3) healthy # of 3 point attempts and
4) very low in turnovers​

....which are all positive predictors of future 3 pt shooting success. This ISU team will improve on 3 pt %, but the answer is to keep shooting them despite some posters saying the contrary. Nixon & Bolton have a pretty large sample size from previous seasons which suggest they are plus 3 pt shooters. FWIW, ISU is around the median when it comes to 3PA/FGA (37.8%) where as the 2016 Villanova nearly led the nation in 3PA/FGA (42.7%) while only finishing the season shooting 36.2% from 3 (which was 105th best of 351 teams).

There is some hope for this team, but it is a matter of players buying into their roles or simplifying them, being put in schemes to succeed, and forming an coherent team identity.

I would take a team of stinson,blalock,rashawn Clark, and jiri hubalek, that team was fun to watch.. this team just makes my brain sad.

 

[sheepplucker]

What the **** are you talking about. Young got called for a ridiculously weak flagrant 1 because the Iowa player ran into his arm. I’d have to rewatch but Young is one of the most underrated players on the team. He doesn’t do the big play but he is really important to the teams success.

He is the only one that will be able to handle azabuke and other big men in the big 12. Jacobson should be subbing @ the 5 not starting at the 4 that was clear the first few games. It’s irritating that’s it’s against the law to play young and conditt together.. but regardless of results prohm will give Jacobson the nod.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Nothing will ever be good enough for a certain faction of the fanbase.

That’s true for nearly every coach in the country though.

Prohm’s a P5 coach not doing as well as his predecessor. There’s going to be a faction that is upset about that.

 

[IASTATE07]

That’s true for nearly every coach in the country though.

Prohm’s a P5 coach not doing as well as his predecessor. There’s going to be a faction that is upset about that.

Except when they're unhappy with the current coach for things our previous coach did as well.

 

[Psiclone]

Yeah this team is much more talented then what you give it credit for.

I'm not seeing the talent level we've had in the past. Other than TH and Conditt, I see no one else with NBA-level talent. TH is the only one who is capable of creating his own shot. Compare that to last year with Shayok, THT, and LW.

 

[Dingus]

I'm not seeing the talent level we've had in the past. Other than TH and Conditt, I see no one else with NBA-level talent. TH is the only one who is capable of creating his own shot. Compare that to last year with Shayok, THT, and LW.

This team should be down from last year, but not bottom of conference bad. I'd venture 4th to 6th/7th in Big 12. Better than that and Prohm will have done a great job. Worse, not so much. A single elite player goes a long way in CBB, especially an elite, complete player like Tyrese.