City Council Approves 40-Acre Entertainment District

[isufbcurt]

Not quite.

Traditional development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financially sustainable long term.
Suburban development patterns in cities or suburbs tend to be financial unsustainable long term.

It is all in here.

Whoa!! People actually read stuff like this? Snoozefest

 

[aeroclone]

Yes, they have been doing due-diligence for a while now.

I can't imagine IKEA going here. Des Moines is way, way smaller than any other market they are in. The smallest cities they are in today look like Salt Lake, KC, Pittsburgh, Austin, Cincinnati. Even as smaller IKEA markets these places are still like 3 or 4 times the size of the DSM metro.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Whoa!! People actually read stuff like this? Snoozefest

LOL....maybe on the surface it might seem like only geeks like me would be interested, but I'd suggest anyone who lives in a town or city would find interest in it...especially homeowners since for many, this is their largest financial investment. It is wise to have some basic understanding on whether or not your town or city could be at risk for financial troubles down the road. This also helps you understand if your local politicians truly understand city finances or are just pandering for votes.

The book is hot off the press as of Oct 1!. I pre-ordered through Target this summer and I didn't get it until 3rd week of Oct as it had to be back-ordered due to demand. ...so there obviously is some interest here. You're a number's guy...right? You do taxes and/or are a CPA? If so, you'd actually find this very interesting. It is right down your alley.

 

[capitalcityguy]

I can't imagine IKEA going here. Des Moines is way, way smaller than any other market they are in. The smallest cities they are in today look like Salt Lake, KC, Pittsburgh, Austin, Cincinnati. Even as smaller IKEA markets these places are still like 3 or 4 times the size of the DSM metro.

Yeah...it doesn't take a lot of poking around to find out their traditional minimum standard to locate somewhere is a population base within 60 miles of 2 million people. DSM metro hasn't even hit 1 M yet (in the 600k's) and adding a 60 mile radius doesn't help much.

 

[isufbcurt]

LOL....maybe on the surface it might seem like only geeks like me would be interested, but I'd suggest anyone who lives in a town or city would find interest in it...especially homeowners since for many, this is their largest financial investment. It is wise to have some basic understanding on whether or not your town or city could be at risk for financial troubles down the road. This also helps you understand if your local politicians truly understand city finances or are just pandering for votes.

The book is hot off the press as of Oct 1!. I pre-ordered through Target this summer and I didn't get it until 3rd week of Oct as it had to be back-ordered due to demand. ...so there obviously is some interest here. You're a number's guy...right? You do taxes and/or are a CPA? If so, you'd actually find this very interesting. It is right down your alley.

To be quite honest

1) I don't view my home as an investment, because I plan on living there until I die. It is my home any changes I make to it are to enhance its appeal/usefulness for me and not for a potential sale down the road.

2) I am not the least bit interested in local politics. School Board, County Recorder, County Auditor, County Assessor do not interest me in the least.

3) Yes I am a numbers guy, but that doesn't mean I like to read about that stuff. In fact the last FULL book I read was for a high school English class over 20 years ago. Reading puts me to sleep and I have more exciting things to do with my time.

 

[capitalcityguy]

To be quite honest

1) I don't view my home as an investment, because I plan on living there until I die. It is my home any changes I make to it are to enhance its appeal/usefulness for me and not for a potential sale down the road.

2) I am not the least bit interested in local politics. School Board, County Recorder, County Auditor, County Assessor do not interest me in the least.

3) Yes I am a numbers guy, but that doesn't mean I like to read about that stuff. In fact the last FULL book I read was for a high school English class over 20 years ago. Reading puts me to sleep and I have more exciting things to do with my time.

I agree, we are past the time period that it makes sense to look at your primary residence as an investment...or suggest to people they should consider it as such. I was only meaning to use the term more loosely in suggesting this is where many families have the largest majority of their overall assets invested (as a percentage of their total net worth).

I've lost interest nationally in politics, but locally I'm very engaged. This is really where the rubber hits the road. Locally is what affects your property taxes, your surroundings, and thus can affect the value of your home & your generally quality of life. I find it interesting you don't place any value in that.

 

[isufbcurt]

I agree, we are past the time period that it makes sense to look at your primary residence as an investment...or suggest to people they should consider it as such. I was only meaning to use the term more loosely in suggesting this is where many families have the largest majority of their overall assets invested (as a percentage of their total net worth).

I've lost interest nationally in politics, but locally I'm very engaged. This is really where the rubber hits the road. Locally is what affects your property taxes, your surroundings, and thus can affect the value of your home & your generally quality of life. I find it interesting you don't place any value in that.

I understand what you are saying regarding local politics but the issues I care about are more at the state and national level. I've never been one to care much about my property tax.

I place a lot of value in my quality of life, but I live in the country and what goes on in the nearest towns (Newton and Baxter) don't really have an effect on me. My quality of life is dictated by me being able to do the things I enjoy (ISU FB and BB games, racing, walking my dogs, traveling with my wife, etc.).

 

[capitalcityguy]

I understand what you are saying regarding local politics but the issues I care about are more at the state and national level. I've never been one to care much about my property tax.

I place a lot of value in my quality of life, but I live in the country and what goes on in the nearest towns (Newton and Baxter) don't really have an effect on me. My quality of life is dictated by me being able to do the things I enjoy (ISU FB and BB games, racing, walking my dogs, traveling with my wife, etc.).

yeah...I failed to pick up on (or remember) you lived in a rural area outside of any town/city. Agreed, it would be hard to care too much about local politics, but would suggest what occurs at your county level is probably worth tracking.

 

[dosry5]

LOL....maybe on the surface it might seem like only geeks like me would be interested, but I'd suggest anyone who lives in a town or city would find interest in it...especially homeowners since for many, this is their largest financial investment. It is wise to have some basic understanding on whether or not your town or city could be at risk for financial troubles down the road. This also helps you understand if your local politicians truly understand city finances or are just pandering for votes.

The book is hot off the press as of Oct 1!. I pre-ordered through Target this summer and I didn't get it until 3rd week of Oct as it had to be back-ordered due to demand. ...so there obviously is some interest here. You're a number's guy...right? You do taxes and/or are a CPA? If so, you'd actually find this very interesting. It is right down your alley.

WAIT A DAMN MINUTE!!!! You ordered the book through Target? NOT A SMALL LOCAL BOOK STORE??!? YOU TRAITOR! Next I’m gonna find out you live on cul de sac....

 

[capitalcityguy]

WAIT A DAMN MINUTE!!!! You ordered the book through Target? NOT A SMALL LOCAL BOOK STORE??!? YOU TRAITOR! Next I’m gonna find out you live on cul de sac....

That's fair...that's fair...albeit a little over-the-top.

My defense - I'd never pre-ordered a book before so I wasn't familiar with the process.

When I knew the book was coming out, I learned that publishers look at pre-order volume as a big indicator as to help determine how much marketing they are willing to put behind a book they are getting ready to publish. I wanted to do my part along those lines, so I googled it and Target was one of the first hits (and had the best price).

I've since learned, you can pre-order from local bookstores too, so I now know better. My apologies to Beaverdale Books.

 

[06_CY]

I would hope the Waukee city council didn't place any stock in IKEA doing a study/due diligence. If they did, they may be dumber than the school board that kept letting Eric Rose do his thing.

 

[capitalcityguy]

I would hope the Waukee city council didn't place any stock in IKEA doing a study/due diligence. If they did, they may be dumber than the school board that kept letting Eric Rose do his thing.

I'll double-down on my assertion that there is almost zero chance IKEA will be locating here. Our metro's size is smaller than their business plan suggests....and now they are focusing on more urban areas.

He confirmed that Ikea told the town it was moving away from suburban big box retail outlets and into global city centers.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article211750844.html

 

[Gunnerclone]

I can't imagine IKEA going here. Des Moines is way, way smaller than any other market they are in. The smallest cities they are in today look like Salt Lake, KC, Pittsburgh, Austin, Cincinnati. Even as smaller IKEA markets these places are still like 3 or 4 times the size of the DSM metro.

They can’t just stop growing because they run out of metro areas with 2 + million people.

 

[delt4cy]

I'm not sure how this went into an Ikea discussion, but I'll help digress the conversation further. My group owned two land parcels that we eventually sold to Ikea in Milwaukee and Nashville, both markets of ~1.5 million. These are recent developments (within the last 3 yrs).

If Ikea's distribution platform has been built out to service the 1.5 million markets, it's not unreasonable for them to explore the next tier of tertiary metros between 500,000 - 1 million with regional pull that may support the demand and not stress the distribution channel. ie. Des Moines, Omaha, OKC/Tulsa, Madison, Grand Rapids, Little Rock, etc. Des Moines MSA is now over 600,000 with a semi-larger regional pull from another 100,000 - 250,000 in ancilllary non-MSA Central Iowa counties.

I don't know how likely it is for Ikea to plant a flag in Central Iowa, but they are in there 4/5th generation of development and that is when the national groups usually find their ways into secondary/tertiary markets.

 

[capitalcityguy]

They can’t just stop growing because they run out of metro areas with 2 + million people.

Econ 101 - the law of diminishing returns.

On a much smaller scale, it is the reason you don't see Quik Trips or Qwik Trip(Stars) in small towns or away from major highway/access points. It doesn't fit their biz models as to be the most efficient and profitable, they need a certain volume of customers coming through each store's doors. They cede the smaller markets to the Casey's of the world as that fits their model.

 

[swiacy]

Broadening the discussion when I read of the proposed entertainment complex in the ISU parking area between Jack Trice and Hilton, I had the same reaction of several on this thread. Very skeptical of the sustainability as it is compared specifically to P & L in KC. Outside of the crowds on football and basketball game days, I question the projections. If they are counting on the foot traffic of nearby students: they will be gone for four months, have limited entertainment dollars and want to hang out at cheap dive bars not new trendy digs. If you have positive reasons why this project will be successful please enlighten me.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Broadening the discussion when I read of the proposed entertainment complex in the ISU parking area between Jack Trice and Hilton, I had the same reaction of several on this thread. Very skeptical of the sustainability as it is compared specifically to P & L in KC. Outside of the crowds on football and basketball game days, I question the projections. If they are counting on the foot traffic of nearby students: they will be gone for four months, have limited entertainment dollars and want to hang out at cheap dive bars not new trendy digs. If you have positive reasons why this project will be successful please enlighten me.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have that particular discussion on the thread related to that project (rather than this one)? I wouldn't be surprised if that topic has already been batted around within that thread....in fact if memory serves, it has.

 

[mred]

My group owned two land parcels that we eventually sold to Ikea in Milwaukee and Nashville, both markets of ~1.5 million.

Milwaukee metro area is officially 1.5M, but that doesn't include Racine/Kenosha/Walworth counties -- those add nearly 500k more within 30 miles of Ikea (give or take). And Madison is only around 80 miles away.

The counter-argument is that those southern counties were served by the Schaumburg Ikea already. Downtown Kenosha is 30 miles from the Oak Creek Ikea and 60 miles from the Schaumburg Ikea. There had been rumors at one time of Ikea considering Oconomowoc instead of Oak Creek -- the location would have been much further from Schaumburg and much closer to Madison -- but I suspect they wanted to be closer to the city of Milwaukee instead of in an outer suburb.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Econ 101 - the law of diminishing returns.

On a much smaller scale, it is the reason you don't see Quik Trips or Qwik Trip(Stars) in small towns or away from major highway/access points. It doesn't fit their biz models as to be the most efficient and profitable, they need a certain volume of customers coming through each store's doors. They cede the smaller markets to the Casey's of the world as that fits their model.

But diminishing returns are better than no returns. They also could be looking to launch a new model.

 

[capitalcityguy]

But diminishing returns are better than no returns. They also could be looking to launch a new model.

It would have to be a new model.

It is a false choice to suggest they must eventually open in smaller markets otherwise if they don't the results is "no returns". The landscape is litter with examples of both business that hold firm to their biz model and thrive as well as those that over-expanded, and got hurt by that. There are numerous ways to expand profitability beyond just blanketing the landscape with your locations.

oh...and by definition, it is not better:

law of diminishing returns

1. used to refer to a point at which the level of profits or benefits gained is less than the amount of money or energy invested.