Battle of the Ex's...Huskers vs Bluejays

[FinalFourCy]

We will never know, but I doubt the strategy of going after transfers (that market was about to get a whole lot more competitive) and 5* players (not a big enough fish to swim in those shark-infested waters) was going to work out.

It wasn’t going to workout? That’s how Prohm rebounded a year ago. And we start three transfers this year, so does Prohm know it won’t work?

I’m surprised you’d regurgitate that lazy false narrative.

Fred and Matt had built a reputation for being good for transfer recruits, and likely would have benefited from the increase in the number of transfers outpacing any increase in P5’s going after them (they always have). An like Prohm is now, they would have been selling the best ISU MBB brand ever.

Fred quit doing his job long before June 2015, and that’s why his recruiting dropped off.

 

[Bubbahotep]

Who in the holy **** cares about what Fred would or would not have done as coach, he isn't our coach anymore. Which reminds me, I really need to change my avatar.

 

[Sigmapolis]

That crowd doesn’t really exist.

It exists. I quote you...

"There is no doubt in my mind Hoiberg would have won a Big 12 championship and had them in the Final Four once by now had he stayed. I felt he was just breaking the surface on how great the sustained success of the program would have been in Year 5."

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...mage-vs-wisconsin.252088/page-13#post-6869779

Another thing that really needs to be mentioned is the state of the program right now. There is no doubt in my mind Hoiberg would have won a Big 12 championship and had them in the Final Four once by now had he stayed. I felt he was just breaking the surface on how great the sustained success of the program would have been in Year 5.

The loss to UAB was bad, but the talent they had coming back was immense, they were getting #3 seeds so for them to keep taking higher steps seems reasonable.

Fast forward to now, Prohm should just be hitting his stride in Year 5 of his program, meanwhile they are coming off a dumpster fire year, and a year where they were far below expectations considering the talent level.

I just don't see where this program is going the next 3 or 4 years under Prohm, with Hoiberg there was no doubt this program was headed to the next level on a national stage.

That crowd definitely exists, sometimes explicitly, and I think many of the others are comparing Prohm to an idealized version of both the actual Hoiberg era and an forthcoming Land of Milk and Honey where he sustained success on par with something like the Fizer-Tinsley year. Well, it never happened, and now he is long gone.

 

[Sigmapolis]

It wasn’t going to workout? That’s how Prohm rebounded a year ago. And we start three transfers this year, so does Prohm know it won’t work?

I’m surprised you’d regurgitate that lazy false narrative.

Fred and Matt had built a reputation for being good for transfer recruits, and likely would have benefited from the increase in the number of transfers outpacing any increase in P5’s going after them (they always have). An like Prohm is now, they would have been selling the best ISU MBB brand ever.

Fred quit doing his job long before June 2015, and that’s why his recruiting dropped off.

I understand your point -- you want to imagine a Hoiberg tenure going forward where he (1.) committed to the college game and Iowa State, which meant recruiting guys in the Niang-Morris-Thomas range that he could land if he put in the work and (2.) quit chasing the moonshine of the Diallo and Vaughn types that Iowa State did not have the re$ource$ to land. Well, none of that happened. We got what we got.

Do you have any evidence the rate of transfer has increased? Even if it has, the competition for the best-of-the-best transfers is much steeper now than it was during the Hoiberg years. His iffy transfer recruiting at Nebraska is proof of that.

The impressive thing about the Hoiberg and Prohm tenures to me is not the differences in results and styles, frankly, but the similarities. The results have been similar, the computer rankings have been similar, we are still an "offense first" program that struggles to rebound and stop the three and... as you said... we still have a roster heavily built around transfers, but at least Prohm is putting in the work to land guys like Wigginton, Horton-Tucker, and Foster and finding gems like Haliburton to build around.

Close your eyes and it is hard to tell the difference.

 

[NoCreativity]

It exists. I quote you...

"There is no doubt in my mind Hoiberg would have won a Big 12 championship and had them in the Final Four once by now had he stayed. I felt he was just breaking the surface on how great the sustained success of the program would have been in Year 5."

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...mage-vs-wisconsin.252088/page-13#post-6869779



That crowd definitely exists, sometimes explicitly, and I think many of the others are comparing Prohm to an idealized version of both the actual Hoiberg era and an forthcoming Land of Milk and Honey where he sustained success on par with something like the Fizer-Tinsley year. Well, it never happened, and now he is long gone.

I dont talk about Prohm anymore. The other poster you are quoting said "3 Final Fours". Please explain where i said we would have 3 Final Fours. You can clearly see I said "once" and 1 Big 12 championship.

So let me get this straight, the team was already getting #3 seeds in Year 4 and 5, and everyone knows the Kane-Ejim-Niang team had definite Final Four potential had Niang not gotten hurt, but you dont think 5 years more of Hoiberg would have gotten any closer to a Big 12 championship or a Final Four?

You do realize a 3 seed means they were a Top 9-12 team in the entire tournament? Yeah, teams around that range are never good enough to make the Final Four!!!

I agree with alot of your posts, but trying to drag me into this one is stupidity on your part.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I dont talk about Prohm anymore. The other poster you are quoting said "3 Final Fours". Please explain where i said we would have 3 Final Fours. You can clearly see I said "once" and 1 Big 12 championship.

So let me get this straight, the team was already getting #3 seeds in Year 4 and 5, and everyone knows the Kane-Ejim-Niang team had definite Final Four potential had Niang not gotten hurt, but you dont think 5 years more of Hoiberg would have gotten any closer to a Big 12 championship or a Final Four?

You do realize a 3 seed means they were a Top 9-12 team in the entire tournament? Yeah, teams around that range are never good enough to make the Final Four!!!

I agree with alot of your posts, but trying to drag me into this one is stupidity on your part.

Good for you for cooling it on Prohm. I appreciate that from you.

The point remains, however --

Some of the Prohm bashing has at least an element of comparing it to an idealized level of either past Hoiberg success (e.g., "without the bad luck of the Babb/Niang injuries, we are going to the Final Four!") or "future" Hoiberg success (your post).

Was I slightly hyperbolic to the actual text of your post? Yeah, you said one Final Four and one Big 12 regular season championship. I think the meat of the point remains -- even one of those would be absolutely fantastic accomplishments.

Fred never did either, and neither has Prohm.

It is too late to take back your post -- you are comparing Prohm and judging him against things that Fred never did in Ames. He might have, but he never did.

 

[NoCreativity]

Good for you for cooling it on Prohm. I appreciate that from you.

The point remains, however --

Some of the Prohm bashing has at least an element of comparing it to an idealized level of either past Hoiberg success (e.g., "without the bad luck of the Babb/Niang injuries, we are going to the Final Four!") or "future" Hoiberg success (your post).

Was I slightly hyperbolic to the actual text of your post? Yeah, you said one Final Four and one Big 12 regular season championship. I think the meat of the point remains -- even one of those would be absolutely fantastic accomplishments.

Fred never did either, and neither has Prohm.

It is too late to take back your post -- you are comparing Prohm and judging him against things that Fred never did in Ames. He might have, but he never did.

You guys act like the program would be in shambles right now in Hoibergs 10th year. I just dont think its too much to expect the goals I mentioned with the way the program was trending back then. Some of you guys underestimate how big of a name he was back then in college basketball.

 

[NoCreativity]

Thats all I have to say about it, Im not here to argue anymore and Im over the Prohm bashing, just stop pulling me into arguments I dont want to be in anymore.

My goal this basketball season is to just enjoy the season and the growth. I dont think we are very good but we have alot of guys that I really enjoy watching and see like great reps for the program and the university. I cant say the same about last years team which seemed like a collection of prima donna's which made the season even that much more frustrating.

 

[Sigmapolis]

You guys act like the program would be in shambles right now in Hoibergs 10th year. I just dont think its too much to expect the goals I mentioned with the way the program was trending back then. Some of you guys underestimate how big of a name he was back then in college basketball.

Shambles? I doubt that, assuming, again, that Fred really committed to the college game, Iowa State, and putting in the hard work to land good 4* players. If I had to guess, though, I would say he would be hovering about where he was.

Taking a present trend and projecting it out forever, linearly, is a very bad type of reasoning, however. Fred had the program in around the 10th to 15th range in college basketball, yes, but going from a bottom-feeder to pretty competitive is easier than going to pretty good to routinely pulling #1 seeds, conference championships, and Final Fours. The level of competition at the top is homicidal. Saying he was going to cruise up to the level of the blue bloods on a linear progression is pretty tenuous.

Part of me thinks Fred left because he felt he had taken the program about as far as he could. Above that level, things become so competitive (and things become so corrupt and dirty, frankly), that I am not sure Fred wanted to be a part of it.

I think you might overrate the heroic status of our former ball boy throughout college basketball, too. Nebraska is a pretty cruddy job. You figure he could have landed something a little better if regard for him was really that lofty. To us, he was a legend, but to the rest of the world, he had a nice run at Iowa State built around a few gimmicks like transfer recruiting and a JATO-boosted offense, but he was never in the class of some other guys challenging the blue bloods like Wright, Bennett, and Beard.

 

[NoCreativity]

Shambles? I doubt that, assuming, again, that Fred really committed to the college game, Iowa State, and putting in the hard work to land good 4* players. If I had to guess, though, I would say he would be hovering about where he was.

Taking a present trend and projecting it out forever, linearly, is a very bad type of reasoning, however. Fred had the program in around the 10th to 15th range in college basketball, yes, but going from a bottom-feeder to pretty competitive is easier than going to pretty good to routinely pulling #1 seeds, conference championships, and Final Fours. The level of competition at the top is homicidal. Saying he was going to cruise up to the level of the blue bloods on a linear progression is pretty tenuous.

Part of me thinks Fred left because he felt he had taken the program about as far as he could. Above that level, things become so competitive (and things become so corrupt and dirty, frankly), that I am not sure Fred wanted to be a part of it.

I think you might overrate the heroic status of our former ball boy throughout college basketball, too. Nebraska is a pretty cruddy job. You figure he could have landed something a little better if regard for him was really that lofty. To us, he was a legend, but to the rest of the world, he had a nice run at Iowa State built around a few gimmicks like transfer recruiting and a JATO-boosted offense, but he was never in the class of some other guys challenging the blue bloods like Wright, Bennett, and Beard.

Wright and Bennett have been around for years, Beard isnt a blue blood coach, he just turned a crappy program into a contender. Anyways, I appreciate your responses but Im not here to argue anymore, please dont drag me into future posts that I made 2 months ago.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Wright and Bennett have been around for years, Beard isnt a blue blood coach, he just turned a crappy program into a contender. Anyways, I appreciate your responses but Im not here to argue anymore, please dont drag me into future posts that I made 2 months ago.

Sorry -- you just provided a great example.

Bennett is a great comparison for Hoiberg, though. Bennett took the UVA job in 2009 and Hoiberg came to Ames in 2010, if you want to make comparisons.

Beard is a good coach, but we see he is struggling a little without Culver around, which was a lucky recruiting situation that only happens so often.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Didn't expect to get UNO before UNL when I hit CTRL+F to find them...

 

[AuH2O]

Sorry -- you just provided a great example.

Bennett is a great comparison for Hoiberg, though. Bennett took the UVA job in 2009 and Hoiberg came to Ames in 2010, if you want to make comparisons.

Beard is a good coach, but we see he is struggling a little without Culver around, which was a lucky recruiting situation that only happens so often.

Not just Culver but look at his roster from last year. Unbelievable number of 5th year grown ass men. I think Beard is damn good and they still have some solid players but ranking them that high was quite a leap of faith.

 

[madguy30]

Sorry -- you just provided a great example.

Bennett is a great comparison for Hoiberg, though. Bennett took the UVA job in 2009 and Hoiberg came to Ames in 2010, if you want to make comparisons.

Beard is a good coach, but we see he is struggling a little without Culver around, which was a lucky recruiting situation that only happens so often.

I'm interested to see if Bennett goes to Wisconsin when that time comes. I don't think Gard's going to get it done long-term.

 

[nfrine]

Fred only left prohm like 4 NBA players

A couple of those became NBA players because of CSP.

 

[CycloneVet]

I don’t understand why so much hatred for Morgan but not for McD. Because of his nice guy image? He is under investigation for cheating at Creighton so he may not even be a nice guy after all.

I ******* hate Chewy. The people that say Hilton Magic is dead now don’t remember the Dark Ages of McD. I don’t hate Wayne. Nit deep run followed by round of 32? His teams were light years ahead of Chewys at ISU .

 

[Cyched]

I ******* hate Chewy. The people that say Hilton Magic is dead now don’t remember the Dark Ages of McD. I don’t hate Wayne. Nit deep run followed by round of 32? His teams were light years ahead of Chewys at ISU .

This is becoming a theme.

Greg never pulled off an upset at Hilton. Ever. Hell, Prohm's worst team a couple years ago still pulled off a handful of upsets at home.

 

[Lineup]

**** fred

 

[CycloneVet]

I understand your point -- you want to imagine a Hoiberg tenure going forward where he (1.) committed to the college game and Iowa State, which meant recruiting guys in the Niang-Morris-Thomas range that he could land if he put in the work and (2.) quit chasing the moonshine of the Diallo and Vaughn types that Iowa State did not have the re$ource$ to land. Well, none of that happened. We got what we got.

Do you have any evidence the rate of transfer has increased? Even if it has, the competition for the best-of-the-best transfers is much steeper now than it was during the Hoiberg years. His iffy transfer recruiting at Nebraska is proof of that.

The impressive thing about the Hoiberg and Prohm tenures to me is not the differences in results and styles, frankly, but the similarities. The results have been similar, the computer rankings have been similar, we are still an "offense first" program that struggles to rebound and stop the three and... as you said... we still have a roster heavily built around transfers, but at least Prohm is putting in the work to land guys like Wigginton, Horton-Tucker, and Foster and finding gems like Haliburton to build around.

Close your eyes and it is hard to tell the difference.

Plus I don’t get the feeling Steve is on the first ship out of town

 

[HFCS]

This is becoming a theme.

Greg never pulled off an upset at Hilton. Ever. Hell, Prohm's worst team a couple years ago still pulled off a handful of upsets at home.

Not making the dance with Brackins, Garrett and Gilstrap was absolutely ridiculous.