MLB: ***Official 2019 St. Louis Cardinals Season Thread***

[matclone]

I'm getting discouraged and I haven't been in a long time. If there's some rational basis for continuing to put strike-him-out Fowler in the starting lineup (while dropping sure-hitting Jose again), someone let me know. Despite getting hit a few times, Fowler's like 0-16 in the first spot. I figured it was a bad move from the start. Munoz (hitting well over .300) and Gyorko are sitting on the bench as well, and getting little playing time. It's like they've decided they're going to stick with their veterans (and highest paid players) no matter what.

 

[heitclone]

4 in a row, always nice to sweep the Cubbies.

 

[heitclone]

Now thats how you start a game, Ozuna's destroyed that ball.

 

[throwittoblythe]

Now thats how you start a game, Ozuna's destroyed that ball.

This game is a microcosm of the season: start fast, then slowly fade away...

 

[matclone]

I had a bad feeling in the first inning. How many times have we done this: swing the bats to begin, then put them back in the rack the rest of the game.

 

[throwittoblythe]

Anyone else about ready to give up on this team? I’m very close to mailing in the rest of the season.

Carpenter is showing this is a trend, not a slump. He started cold last year then got hot. We’re almost to the ASB and he’s showing no signs of life.

Starting pitching isn’t living up to expectations. Bullpen arms seem like they’re starting to wear down (Brebbia, Hicks) and I expect Miller will only get worse as the year goes on.

Godly also continues to disappoint. He just looks lost.

Not many bright spots to be found. Ozuna , Gant, and Dejong are the only solid players. They’re still only 2.5 back but that’s because CHI and MIL have been playing poorly as well. I expect them to make a lackluster deal at the deadline, like they always do. Mo will give some line about how “we are exploring internal options” then do nothing.

At this point, I’m not sure what will get this team back into contention. I don’t see a new nucleus of players coming that will lead the team in the future. Youth is there (Wong, Flaherty, Bader) But I don’t see any primetime players.

What’s everyone else think?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I think we are in trouble, just lost Hicks yesterday to Tommie John surgery, Outside of Ozuna, no one is hitting ****. The stat they put up Sunday, was telling, the Cards have the worst production from the one and two hole in the game.

It just blows me away that when they shift on Carpenture, that he does not bunt every time towards 3rd base. When you are hitting .220, what you are doing is not working. Bider is great in CF, but cannot hit at all. The other day, bases loading, 3 sliders on the corner, Bider swings at everyone and strikes out. He seems like he has no game plan of what he is trying to do up there at the plate, other than try and hit the ball.

Time to really rethink what we are doing, get rid of Fowler, move Carp, and decide about resigning Ozuna or trade him. Bring up or find young hitters, that will put the ball in play.

 

[throwittoblythe]

I think we are in trouble, just lost Hicks yesterday to Tommie John surgery, Outside of Ozuna, no one is hitting ****. The stat they put up Sunday, was telling, the Cards have the worst production from the one and two hole in the game.

It just blows me away that when they shift on Carpenture, that he does not bunt every time towards 3rd base. When you are hitting .220, what you are doing is not working. Bider is great in CF, but cannot hit at all. The other day, bases loading, 3 sliders on the corner, Bider swings at everyone and strikes out. He seems like he has no game plan of what he is trying to do up there at the plate, other than try and hit the ball.

Time to really rethink what we are doing, get rid of Fowler, move Carp, and decide about resigning Ozuna or trade him. Bring up or find young hitters, that will put the ball in play.

Yeah, I think you gotta really look at completely re-building the team. There's some talent to build around, but not a lot. Carp is probably at the end of his career (good thing they just extended him!). I think you try and move guys like Mikolas, Gyrko, J. Martinez, Carpenter, and some of the younger guys. Gotta keep Goldy and hope he turns it around. You can keep Dejong and Wong, and I'd be ok with signing Ozuna as long as it's not a mega-deal.

That being said, this front office does not have a great record of dealing and/or signing players. There haven't been many that worked out in their favor:

Fowler - got one good year and has been terrible after that
Mikolas - signed after one year, now is regressing
Ozuna - Probably the best so far, but they gave up some serious talent to get him; even then last year was awful
Goldy - Jury is out, but not trending in a good way
Shreve - gave up a budding superstar in Voit to get one year of a mediocre arm.
Heyward - had a decent year but then walked (this one worked out better for STL as he's had two awful years prior to this one)
A. Miller - not been anything close to what he used to be
Cecil - could be the worst pitcher in the organization
B. Pena - was hurt, then played in one or two games and then got cut

 

[heitclone]

We're only 2.5 back, I'm not sure how that happened but somehow MIL and the Cubbies can't pull away. I'm not giving up yet but I think they need to do something with Carp, at the least, take him out of the leadoff spot.

The Hicks news hurts big time, puts a lot of pressure on Martinez and most likely keeps him in the bullpen. Solidify the closer role and find a capable lead off guy and I'm optimistic, I think there are options for the closer but idk who we can put in the 1 spot of the order. Wong? Bader? Idk....

There is one bright spot to not being able to hit, I like that we are being aggressive when we are getting on base.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I disagree the Cards don't need a total rebuilding, what we need is more of a thinning of the herd, type of rebuild.

1st Goldy is fine, too good a player not to hit, plus we are paying for 5 more years.
2nd Wong, is one I could go either way on, still has not learned to cut down his swing, great
defense, but he is hitting .242. with 7 hr and 33 RBI.
3rd. Carp, just not getting it done, Hitting .217, 10 hr, and 28 RBI, below average fielder. If he is
not hitting for a high average, then find someone that can. Play Gyrko if he ever gets
healthy.
SS We are fine with DeJong, hitting only .242, but he is a SS, 7 HR from that position is not
bad.
C Yodi, plays way to much and his defense is starting to go down, .264. 4HR and 35 RBI.
LF Ozona has been great , 62 RBI, 20 HR, sign him, but do not break the bank.
CF Bader, great defender, but hiting .209 with 6 HR. He needs to improve his offense.
RF Complete cluster, Fowler .242 8 HR and 27 RBI, Martinez .282 5 HR and 28 RBI, but
his defense sucks. We need to find a better player here.

The starting pitching is what it is, Wano has not done bad, but the other starters have not picked up the slack. We have too many 2nd and 3rd place starters and no #1 starter. Had high hopes for Flaherty, but he has not stepped up. Looked great last night, has a 2 run lead, and then back to back HR, and he gives up 6 runs in 10 minutes. Hudson has been up and down. Wacha is Wacha, one start decent, the next start he is gone in 4 innings after throwing 95 pitches.

I like our bullpen with Martinez, but losing Hicks for the season will cause us problems, Miller is shot and worthless.

Time to trim the herd, DFA Fowler if you cannot trade him, sit Carp, and tell Bader, its time to start hitting, bring up O'Neal shove him in right, and Reyes for the bullpen.

Offseason, decide what Ozuna is going to do, and if he signs find another bat, either at 3rd or RF. If Ozuna leaves, find 2 corner outfield bats.

 

[cmjh10]

IMO, and I thought this last year, everybody is on the block except for Yadi. See what happens.

For sure need to trade Martinez to some AL team. Young guys need more playing time as well.

 

[throwittoblythe]

I disagree the Cards don't need a total rebuilding, what we need is more of a thinning of the herd, type of rebuild.

Time to trim the herd, DFA Fowler if you cannot trade him, sit Carp, and tell Bader, its time to start hitting, bring up O'Neal shove him in right, and Reyes for the bullpen.

Offseason, decide what Ozuna is going to do, and if he signs find another bat, either at 3rd or RF. If Ozuna leaves, find 2 corner outfield bats.

I like your approach of "thinning the herd" vs a total re-build. I think you build around Goldy, Dejong, Ozuna, and Flaherty (and Hudson, to a much lesser degree). If they are more than 6 games out by the deadline, it's time to open up the roster to trades. Cubs and Brew Crew are going to get hot at some point and if they Cards don't pick it up, they could drop 4-6 games in the standings over 2 weeks.

My top chips would be:
Mikolas would be a great one to trade, everyone will be looking for innings late in the year.
Ozuna if you really don't think you can re-sign him
Martinez to the AL, for the reasons you said
Gyrko, he's not in the long-term plan anyway

Unfortunately, Carp, Fowler, and Miller are all dead weight at this point. No one is going to give anything of value to take on aging/declining players with their contracts. I also don't see Mo getting rid of Carp who is a core off-field leader.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

With money stream that St. Louis has coming into it, the Cards should never be in a position to do a total tear down and rebuild. They are second in the league in attendence, they are printing money from Ball Park Village, and the new FOX Midwest money is now flowing in.
So since the money is there, why are they not spending. Why is Fowler still on the team, that is dead money, release him and eat his salary. Talk to Ozona, and his agent, and see what he is thinking. Say 20 million per year for 5 years, ok, sign him. If he wants 30 per for 8 you trade him at the deadline.
Move Martinez, to any team that has young players to trade and needs a good right handed bat. Look to the Twins, Boston or TB, all will be playoff teams and have young talent.
Bring O'Neil up, put him in RF and see if he is the answer for the future.

Right now we are a 3rd place club, the Brewers and Cubs are not going away, and the Crew really have not hit at all except their stud.

 

[CyCrazy]

The Birds will not do squat until MO gets the axe.

 

[throwittoblythe]

The Birds will not do squat until MO gets the axe.

I used to be a Mo defender, but I've all but lost confidence. His track record on personnel has been absolutely atrocious.

• Bryan Pena - Played like 2 games and then was cut. Cards ate a 2 yr contract, I think.
• Brett Cecil - High priced reliever, signed to a long term deal...has been hurt or terrible. They've basically parked him on the IL until his contract is up.
• Luke Gregerson - Hurt, then bombed out. Cut from team.
• Traded Pham who is tearing up the AL right now and the Cards are in search of outfield offense. Really only got Genesis Cabrera in return. His upside is good, but still TBD.
• Traded Oscar Mercado to CLE for a bag of baseballs. Mercado is currently doing very well.
• Trevor Miller appears to be another case like Cecil. High priced reliever who is providing no value. They're stuck with him for another few years.
• Traded Luke Voit who is tearing up the AL as well. They got Chasen Shreve who they cut this year.
• The Goldschmidt trade isn't looking great either so far, but it's still too early to judge that as a bust.
• Signed Fowler for a long term deal and he has been one of the biggest FA busts of all-time.

It seems like everything he touches turns to dust. We fired Matheny because his in-game decisions were terrible. Here we are a year later and this team feels no different. Lackluster play, constant shooting themselves in the foot, and no leading stars to be found anywhere on the roster.

 

[CyCrazy]

I used to be a Mo defender, but I've all but lost confidence. His track record on personnel has been absolutely atrocious.

• Bryan Pena - Played like 2 games and then was cut. Cards ate a 2 yr contract, I think.
• Brett Cecil - High priced reliever, signed to a long term deal...has been hurt or terrible. They've basically parked him on the IL until his contract is up.
• Luke Gregerson - Hurt, then bombed out. Cut from team.
• Traded Pham who is tearing up the AL right now and the Cards are in search of outfield offense. Really only got Genesis Cabrera in return. His upside is good, but still TBD.
• Traded Oscar Mercado to CLE for a bag of baseballs. Mercado is currently doing very well.
• Trevor Miller appears to be another case like Cecil. High priced reliever who is providing no value. They're stuck with him for another few years.
• Traded Luke Voit who is tearing up the AL as well. They got Chasen Shreve who they cut this year.
• The Goldschmidt trade isn't looking great either so far, but it's still too early to judge that as a bust.
• Signed Fowler for a long term deal and he has been one of the biggest FA busts of all-time.

It seems like everything he touches turns to dust. We fired Matheny because his in-game decisions were terrible. Here we are a year later and this team feels no different. Lackluster play, constant shooting themselves in the foot, and no leading stars to be found anywhere on the roster.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Matheny had lost the team, and the jury is still out on our current manager., but its not looking good. We need a Whitey or LaRussa type of person that is going to tell the players. "The guys that produce will play, if not you will sit and then be released or traded."
We have plenty of money, this off season we need to spend it, not looking for bargains, but players that are difference makers.

 

[matclone]

Greg Holland should have made one of those bad deal lists.

 

[throwittoblythe]

Greg Holland should have made one of those bad deal lists.

You could also add Ty Wigginton to that list, as well. Signed him to a two year deal and cut him within 3 months.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Greg Holland should have made one of those bad deal lists.

Was it 10 or 15 million for one year, and he sucked.