Wind Energy in Iowa...Your Thoughts

Peter

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2010
7,489
14,248
113
Madison, Wisconsin
Does anyone here have solar panels on their roof? One of my neighbors does and says that he rarely uses electricity from the gird. Most of the time he actually sells electricity back to the power company. Not sure this is true in all cases.

I recently read about a Dutch company that is making home batteries that will store power from the solar panels on your roof. They claim their system will make homes completely energy independent. It makes me wonder if the way forward is to individually retrofit homes with renewable energy rather than run everything through a massive power grid.
 

KnappShack

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2008
23,871
32,225
113
Parts Unknown
Does anyone here have solar panels on their roof? One of my neighbors does and says that he rarely uses electricity from the gird. Most of the time he actually sells electricity back to the power company. Not sure this is true in all cases.

I recently read about a Dutch company that is making home batteries that will store power from the solar panels on your roof. They claim their system will make homes completely energy independent. It makes me wonder if the way forward is to individually retrofit homes with renewable energy rather than run everything through a massive power grid.

And then buy electric cars, charge them with solar power, and get all da chicks!
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Peter

Entropy

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2008
9,614
15,948
113
Cedar Rapids, IA
Does anyone here have solar panels on their roof? One of my neighbors does and says that he rarely uses electricity from the gird. Most of the time he actually sells electricity back to the power company. Not sure this is true in all cases.

I recently read about a Dutch company that is making home batteries that will store power from the solar panels on your roof. They claim their system will make homes completely energy independent. It makes me wonder if the way forward is to individually retrofit homes with renewable energy rather than run everything through a massive power grid.
Yes.
We had them installed in November of 2017. They have generated 5.35 MWh since then.
They are not standalone, but part of the grid with Alliant. We push onto the grid during the day, pull off the grid at night. Payoff is around 7 years on a 25 year system. The state and federal tax credits were a nice addition, and dropped the payoff time.
 

ScottyP

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 24, 2007
5,264
7,652
113
Urbandale, IA
One of my concerns with the batteries is the mining for the rare earth metals. Is the mining for the materials used in batteries that bad? I could have heard wrong or things have changed.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Peter

AirWalke

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2006
7,040
1,625
113
Des Moines
Does anyone here have solar panels on their roof? One of my neighbors does and says that he rarely uses electricity from the gird. Most of the time he actually sells electricity back to the power company. Not sure this is true in all cases.

I recently read about a Dutch company that is making home batteries that will store power from the solar panels on your roof. They claim their system will make homes completely energy independent. It makes me wonder if the way forward is to individually retrofit homes with renewable energy rather than run everything through a massive power grid.

Tesla is also doing something like this. Home batteries will probably become a big thing as we transition further to renewables.
 

BringBackJohnny

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2009
1,024
379
83
38
Ames
If it can survive without govenment subsidies, it would be okay. It is some of the most expensive electricity to produce.

Some of the large power producers will not use wind energy in their business plans as wind will not break even without large subsidies.

This is always something i think about. But then I wonder a step deeper.

Coal and natty gas are supposed to be profitable. Is that at the power generator level or at a system level. It seems to be much of the energy system as a whole is subsidized or receives some kind of positive treatment.

Coal/ Natty gas you'd have to look at the mining/extraction, logistics, tax protections, plan construction, pollution waivers, wages, etc.

My assumption is all power is probably subsidized by the govt. somehow directly or indirectly. The fossil fuels realm has had over 100 years worth of lobbying in DC. I am sure they got kicked a couple bones throughout that time.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SEIOWA CLONE

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
Yes, its pretty bad. Or expensive if you want to mine the Rare Earths like you should. They are pretty much only supplied by China these days.
 

jbhtexas

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2006
14,321
4,370
113
Arlington, TX
But that doesn't mean it's a HOAX. Unrealistic goals are not a hoax!

I can't believe I'm doing this..

hoax
noun
something intended to deceive or defraud: The Piltdown man was a scientific hoax.
verb (used with object)
to deceive by a hoax; hoodwink.

It's way beyond an unrealistic goal. She's been told by numerous people in the science, engineering, and environmental communities that what she proposes is impossible, yet she continues to insist that her plan is feasible. Not only is it impossible, she has been told that if it was even attempted to implement her plan, there would be significant harm done to the environment.

She's purposely intending to deceive people into believing something that is impossible and bad is actually possible and good. It's a hoax by your own definition.
 

Peter

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2010
7,489
14,248
113
Madison, Wisconsin
One of my concerns with the batteries is the mining for the rare earth metals. Is the mining for the materials used in batteries that bad? I could have heard wrong or things have changed.

There is also the issue of battery disposal. When we move to a battery powered society (cars, homes, etc), we will need to develop a way to safely retire or recycle old units. I am 100% behind renewable, but we need plans to deal with all the battery waste that will result.
 

Alswelk

Reason in Revolt
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 5, 2006
1,309
1,345
113
38
Albuquerque, NM
So I've been wondering how to express this opinion, and I'd like to bounce ideas off in this thread so I can explore this a little more:

Fundamentally, my problem with wind/solar energy is that there is inherently some upper cap on the amount that can be reasonably produced by them and therefore stating that we are going to 100% rely on them is a tacit admission of defeat and a pessimistic outlook on the limits of human capability.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: crawfy54

Peter

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2010
7,489
14,248
113
Madison, Wisconsin
It's way beyond an unrealistic goal. She's been told by numerous people in the science, engineering, and environmental communities that what she proposes is impossible, yet she continues to insist that her plan is feasible. Not only is it impossible, she has been told that if it was even attempted to implement her plan, there would be significant harm done to the environment.

She's purposely intending to deceive people into believing something that is impossible and bad is actually possible and good. It's a hoax by your own definition.

I think you are misreading ambition as deception. We need visionaries like AOC to set goals and point our economy in a sustainable direction. The plan will evolve and change as we move forward. No reason to think small about the environment, especially when lives depend on it.
 

Skyh13

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2006
7,456
4,359
113
I think you are misreading ambition as deception. We need visionaries like AOC to set goals and point our economy in a sustainable direction. The plan will evolve and change as we move forward. No reason to think small about the environment, especially when lives depend on it.

Well said.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CascadeClone

ScottyP

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 24, 2007
5,264
7,652
113
Urbandale, IA
I think you are misreading ambition as deception. We need visionaries like AOC to set goals and point our economy in a sustainable direction. The plan will evolve and change as we move forward. No reason to think small about the environment, especially when lives depend on it.

AOC's proposal is a little bit of both.
 

weR138

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2008
12,187
5,138
113
Fundamentally, my problem with wind/solar energy is that there is inherently some upper cap on the amount that can be reasonably produced by them and therefore stating that we are going to 100% rely on them is a tacit admission of defeat and a pessimistic outlook on the limits of human capability.

Which is why we need nuclear energy to fill in the gaps.
 

Alswelk

Reason in Revolt
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 5, 2006
1,309
1,345
113
38
Albuquerque, NM
Which is why we need nuclear energy to fill in the gaps.

Honestly, I think all baseload should be nuclear. Nothing is better at baseload than nuke. Even baseload plus a certain amount of surplus for peak times (during non-peak, use that power for desalination or carbon extraction or something else useful).

I mean an even broader question though. The root question is do we want to continue expanding as a species? Let's go crazy and even say beyond this particular planet? We aren't getting there with chemical rockets and solar power, not in sufficient numbers to make a meaningful difference.

I also think an abandonment of nuclear means an eventual loss of 70+ years of experience working with and around radiation. Yes the theory is written out, but there's a certain practical side of things that can't be replicated by just reading about it. We're going to need to leverage fission eventually, so it would be a tragic waste to just throw that experience away.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flycy

CtownCyclone

Midnight Rider
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 20, 2010
16,831
9,126
113
Where they love the governor
Tesla is also doing something like this. Home batteries will probably become a big thing as we transition further to renewables.

Go ahead, see how much solar energy you could get with their roof!

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

For me, it would cost me an extra $125/month for 30 years by doing this instead of staying on the grid.
 

weR138

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2008
12,187
5,138
113
Honestly, I think all baseload should be nuclear. Nothing is better at baseload than nuke. Even baseload plus a certain amount of surplus for peak times (during non-peak, use that power for desalination or carbon extraction or something else useful).

I mean an even broader question though. The root question is do we want to continue expanding as a species? Let's go crazy and even say beyond this particular planet? We aren't getting there with chemical rockets and solar power, not in sufficient numbers to make a meaningful difference.

I also think an abandonment of nuclear means an eventual loss of 70+ years of experience working with and around radiation. Yes the theory is written out, but there's a certain practical side of things that can't be replicated by just reading about it. We're going to need to leverage fission eventually, so it would be a tragic waste to just throw that experience away.

Elon Musk doesn't think it's crazy. Based on his 60 Minutes interview; the human race should be a multi planetary species.

And the abandonment of nuclear besides being sad could also be really f%cking dangerous.

No, as Col. Kurtz said of horror (and moral terror)...

...you must make a friend of nuclear energy. Nuclear energy and power are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared.
 

crawfy54

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2006
1,993
368
113
Ames, Iowa
I think you are misreading ambition as deception. We need visionaries like AOC to set goals and point our economy in a sustainable direction. The plan will evolve and change as we move forward. No reason to think small about the environment, especially when lives depend on it.
I’m all about renewable energy. It pays my bills. But AOC spouting off some ludicrous s*** doesn’t qualify her a visionary.
 

Goothrey

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2009
4,882
636
113
Dayton via Austin
Is demand for electricity highest in the summer and lowest in the winter because we cool our spaces with electricity while we heat our spaces with gas? Perhaps getting our heat from electricity could take better advantage of the increased wind performance during the winter.

Side note...purchased a house last year with solar panels included (already paid off). Took a little while to get the green light to sell back to the grid, but once that happened (back in October), I haven't had to pay a bill since, all while building enough credit to probably cover most of the hotter months (June, July, and August) when the AC earns its keep. It's awesome. As long as I live in the south, I don't think I'll be in a home without solar panels.
 

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
26,917
41,617
113
Waukee
I think you are misreading ambition as deception. We need visionaries like AOC to set goals and point our economy in a sustainable direction. The plan will evolve and change as we move forward. No reason to think small about the environment, especially when lives depend on it.

This is a cop-out. While I do not agree with some of the more hyperbolic tactics of the climate movement, I do fundamentally agree with them this is a serious problem that we should really do something about. Climate change is very real and dangerous.

A real problem of a titanic scope and scale requires real, carefully-measured solutions. The last thing we need is an ill-conceived "aspiration" with little practical relevance and no real plan or policy underneath it towards addressing the real problem.

Plenty of people have put serious thought into this. Mark Jacobson at Stanford, for instance, has a plan for transitioning to 0% carbon by 2050, here...

https://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/CountriesWWS.pdf

I might not agree with Dr. Jacobson on every particular of the program, but at least there is a real plan there that deals with some of the limitations of our current technologies and the engineering and planning fundamentals of our economy and energy sector.

Instead, we get a vague, squishy, impossible proposal -- no wait, it is an "aspiration." We are way past the stage of needing aspirations at this point. Making the opening salvo and focal point of the policy conversation something that is impossible, easily mocked by its opponents, and easy to dislike and dismiss even by moderates very sympathetic to its goals, is counterproductive. Be as serious as the problem; an impossible proposal undermines the issue.

I would also keep my eye on the issue -- make your climate proposal your climate proposal. Do not append to it various "free XYZ" proposals that make it look like a bait-and-switch for the command economy wanted by the far-left long before climate change. Engels or Friedman, climate change is real. Eye on the ball. Do not make this about capitalism versus socialism.

Congress' job is to legislate, not declare dubious "national aspirations." Congress' job is to make law, set policy, and set priorities through the budget. We need doing, not wishing, and we need it from somebody ready to serious tackle the problem, not Tweet at it.

Sick burns and aspirations are not solutions to real problems.

Is demand for electricity highest in the summer and lowest in the winter because we cool our spaces with electricity while we heat our spaces with gas? Perhaps getting our heat from electricity could take better advantage of the increased wind performance during the winter.

Side note...purchased a house last year with solar panels included (already paid off). Took a little while to get the green light to sell back to the grid, but once that happened (back in October), I haven't had to pay a bill since, all while building enough credit to probably cover most of the hotter months (June, July, and August) when the AC earns its keep. It's awesome. As long as I live in the south, I don't think I'll be in a home without solar panels.

There are two reasons electricity demand is higher during the summer --

(1.) Air conditioning. As you speculated, we cool our homes with electricity and generally heat them with natural gas or fuel oil, so you need more power in the summer. If we were to transition more and more to electric heat pumps for winter heating, then load would smooth out throughout the year (though not be reduced because, obviously, you still need the AC in the summer). The exact size and scope of that would depend pretty heavily on the region of the country, though. It would not have much of a smoothing effect in Georgia or Florida, which are always going to be about that AC, but it would help in New England or Minnesota.

(2.) The economy is larger and more active in the summer than in the winter. This is why the BEA and BLS have to put large seasonal adjustments on the GDP and jobs numbers because, otherwise, every winter would look like a recession and every summer would look like a boom period. The summer has more economic activity because people travel more, there are more construction projects active, and the agricultural sector is certainly more active during the summer, and people just tend to "hunker down" during the winter. They go out to eat less, they go to fewer movies, all of that. So you are always going to have more load in the summer from the natural and normal seasonality of economic activities like these.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Help Support Us

Become a patron