Proposed CIML Split

[CyFan61]

Or instead of splitting public schools in cities with more than one HS, you make Valley split. You're not going to get a school district to split the classifications they're in for athletics. With a class split like this, you're dividing the school districts of Sioux City, Waterloo, and Des Moines into different classes.

You can't force a school district to build a new high school. Why in the world would you think that anybody has the power to do that?

Class 5A would split school districts into different classes, but my example would have 5A with four 6-team districts and 4A with six 6-team districts, meaning that all of those schools would have four slots on their schedule every year for non-district games like SC North vs. East and West, W'loo West vs. East, and the DSM area schools could rotate playing one another based on who they actually wanted to play. If DSM East knows they aren't competitive and would rather schedule Indianola than Ankeny, then they would have the ability to do so. Solves both problems at once.

 

[jbindm]

People from small schools dropping out of ISU because "it's too big" is the equivalency of athletes transferring "to be closer to home." :twitcy:

It happens, though. I had several classmates that were swallowed up at Iowa and Iowa State. It's a big leap to make if you're coming from a class of less than a hundred.

 

[Clonefan32]

One guy can make a basketball team one guy cannot make a football team. I think schools are doing a huge disservice to their students when they have too high of class size. High school is a great place to try lots of new things. In real big schools kids would have to specialize real early to get the opportunity to just get on the field. I am not trying to say every kid is special snowflake but they should at least have the chance to be a kid and be exposed to lots of opportunities.

I completely agree with all of this, but I'm not sure it answers the question. If the argument is "Valley has 900 kids to pick from and Indianola only has 400", wouldn't that same logic apply to basketball? Out of a group of 900, wouldn't there be a greater chance of have 5 kids that excel at basketball? I understand you don't need the same numbers in basketball as football, but the argument is relative. With that many more kids, surely they will be able to field X amount of players that are better than ours.

 

[BringBackJohnny]

I completely agree with all of this, but I'm not sure it answers the question. If the argument is "Valley has 900 kids to pick from and Indianola only has 400", wouldn't that same logic apply to basketball? Out of a group of 900, wouldn't there be a greater chance of have 5 kids that excel at basketball? I understand you don't need the same numbers in basketball as football, but the argument is relative. With that many more kids, surely they will be able to field X amount of players that are better than ours.

IMO here is what is happening in the schools you are mentioning. They have had football success. They are huge and their is a lot of competition for PT on the football team. A kid can't focus on basketball because all efforts need to be spent to get or maintain the position on the football team(weights, drills, 7 on 7, camps, etc.). This eliminates the selection pool for the basketball squad. Basketball is a sport that requires less of the weights and that junk. So in other schools you can have more multi sport kids ready to bolster your hoops team. My guess is you will see a collation in large schools with football success and a lack of basketball success.

 

[NickTheGreat]

It happens, though. I had several classmates that were swallowed up at Iowa and Iowa State. It's a big leap to make if you're coming from a class of less than a hundred.

I guess. My class was 28, and was the largest in 15 years. My whole hometown could have easily fit in Maple, where I lived my first semester.

I guess I shouldn't say it doesn't happen, but a lot of times, it is grade (or beer) related. :twitcy:

 

[wartknight]

There have been plenty of kids that came from large school high schools that drop out of large universities as well. College is a big adjustment no matter where you come from

 

[FarminCy]

I guess. My class was 28, and was the largest in 15 years. My whole hometown could have easily fit in Maple, where I lived my first semester.

I guess I shouldn't say it doesn't happen, but a lot of times, it is grade (or beer) related. :twitcy:

Completely agree. It's more motivation and time management issues than size of the school. There were 9500 students where I went to college. I knew people from small towns and huge schools in the twin cities that used the "too big" excuse for a not very big school. They had one thing in common, none of them went to class ever.

But I will agree that there are kids out there that just can't be away from their home towns even if it is only a 4-5 year stint in college. I think that is a combination of fear of change and trying to hang on to a status they had in high school which means nothing at college.

 

[Althetuna]

It blows me away that Des Moines Lincoln and East can't compete with Southeast Polk? When I went to Southeast Polk, our varsity football team had 19 people. We weren't in the CIML yet. We played:

DM East
Indianola
Urbandale
Ankeny
Newton
Mason City
South Tama

Who remembers the name of that confernece and who all was in it. Damn I'm old. Can't remember anything.

 

[jbindm]

It blows me away that Des Moines Lincoln and East can't compete with Southeast Polk? When I went to Southeast Polk, our varsity football team had 19 people. We weren't in the CIML yet. We played:

DM East
Indianola
Urbandale
Ankeny
Newton
Mason City
South Tama

Who remembers the name of that confernece and who all was in it. Damn I'm old. Can't remember anything.

SE Polk's athletic department salary total for 2012-13 - $557,000
Lincoln and East's athletic department salary total (COMBINED) - $612,000

When one school is nearly outpacing two others combined, you have a spending gap that is going to lend itself to creating a conference of haves and have nots. That's not the only reason why they can't compete anymore, but it's a huge contributing factor.

 

[Three4Cy]

Yea, that was also 16 years ago when their enrollment was for 9-11 was 1779. Quite a bit different when the current school year was 2190 for 9-11.

What's your point? The school board isn't going to force a second high school on a community that doesn't want it, and the state can't force them to split up. Throw into the mix the WDM school system is in a financial bind and cutting about 3 million dollars from their budget over the next couple of years and there is no way they are going to consider an second high school.

http://www.kcci.com/news/district-considers-closing-school-amid-cuts/24896314#!bcsjrW

Splitting up Valley isn't going to solve anything for the 8 schools that want to break off from the CIML.

 

[Three4Cy]

It blows me away that Des Moines Lincoln and East can't compete with Southeast Polk? When I went to Southeast Polk, our varsity football team had 19 people. We weren't in the CIML yet. We played:

DM East
Indianola
Urbandale
Ankeny
Newton
Mason City
South Tama

Who remembers the name of that confernece and who all was in it. Damn I'm old. Can't remember anything.

Was it the CIC - Central Iowa Conference? Isn't that where SEP was prior to the CIML?

 

[cloneswereall]

What's your point? The school board isn't going to force a second high school on a community that doesn't want it, and the state can't force them to split up. Throw into the mix the WDM school system is in a financial bind and cutting about 3 million dollars from their budget over the next couple of years and there is no way they are going to consider an second high school.

http://www.kcci.com/news/district-considers-closing-school-amid-cuts/24896314#!bcsjrW

Splitting up Valley isn't going to solve anything for the 8 schools that want to break off from the CIML.

My point is that Valley parents were idiotic 16 years ago, if the same vote was brought up today I wouldn't be surprised if they would pass a second HS, and a school that large in Iowa is absurd.

 

[Gunnerclone]

My point is that Valley parents were idiotic 16 years ago, if the same vote was brought up today I wouldn't be surprised if they would pass a second HS, and a school that large in Iowa is absurd.

Hater.

 

[WooBadger18]

It blows me away that Des Moines Lincoln and East can't compete with Southeast Polk? When I went to Southeast Polk, our varsity football team had 19 people. We weren't in the CIML yet. We played:

DM East
Indianola
Urbandale
Ankeny
Newton
Mason City
South Tama

Who remembers the name of that confernece and who all was in it. Damn I'm old. Can't remember anything.

Was East a part of that? Down at Central in the gym, they have the crests of the high schools in an old league and it's the 5 dm schools, dm tech, Valley, and dowling. Plus East would have probably been a lot larger then any of those schools

 

[bigdaddykane]

My point is that Valley parents were idiotic 16 years ago, if the same vote was brought up today I wouldn't be surprised if they would pass a second HS, and a school that large in Iowa is absurd.

It doesn't really matter cuz dowling beats them in everything. And how is dowling allowed to recruit players to go there.

 

[TigerCyJM]

I go to Valley and agree that it is too big. We should either give some territory to Urbandale, because there are kids that go to Valley who live closer to Urbandale HS, or take the kids who go to Waukee but live closer to Valley, put them in the WDM district and build a second high school. The western/southwestern high school would be dominant, though. I can honestly say that I do not know of one athlete that has or will contribute at the varsity level that lives east of 22nd street, which is like 1/3 of the district.

 

[TigerCyJM]

It doesn't really matter cuz dowling beats them in everything. And how is dowling allowed to recruit players to go there.

Dowling doesn't beat valley in everything, people just assume that because they won state in football and girls basketball. I have no clue how they can recruit, but the fact that they deny it is laughable. I have friends who have been approached by coaches at athletic events, offering scholarships, free lunch, etc.
Dowling would be terrible if they didn't recruit, and they know it too.

 

[tm3308]

Dowling doesn't beat valley in everything, people just assume that because they won state in football and girls basketball. I have no clue how they can recruit, but the fact that they deny it is laughable. I have friends who have been approached by coaches at athletic events, offering scholarships, free lunch, etc.
Dowling would be terrible if they didn't recruit, and they know it too.

The whole recruiting thing is a tired-*** angle in high school sports, especially with open enrollment. And I say this as a public school alum who absolutely hated private schools when I was in high school.

 

[ISU42]

The whole recruiting thing is a tired-*** angle in high school sports, especially with open enrollment. And I say this as a public school alum who absolutely hated private schools when I was in high school.

Do kids that transfer to a private school have to sit out like the kids that open enroll? Serious question.

 

[cloneswereall]

Do kids that transfer to a private school have to sit out like the kids that open enroll? Serious question.

I'd assume so, since that's an IHSAA rule, and private schools are still subject to those rules. However, when I think about the people that transferred into my HS (private), none of the transfer kids really played sports, or they just went from public middle schools into our HS.