Difference between UNI and Kansas games

[clonedude]

Here is what stood out to me the most while watching last night's game.... Rohach doesn't run... and I LOVE that!!

Go back to the UNI game where Sam Richardson ran 21 times and had to be nearly carried off the field by the end because he was so beat up. Then forward to last night where Rohach runs TWICE all night.

Anyone that knows me knows that I absolutely HATE the read option play where our QB runs half the time and hands it off half the time. That will do nothing for us but get our QB killed. Last night was so much better in that aspect.

I don't know why you can't just still run the read option, but do it with 2 RB's instead of a RB and QB? Put Rohach in a shorter shotgun with 2 RB's behind him in kind of a "T" formation. You can either hand off or keep it with the first RB up the gut, and if you keep it, then pitch it to the other RB going to the outside. Or fake both, and drop back to pass even.

Just don't run the QB if at all possible. Seemed to work much better last night against KU versus what we did with Richardson against UNI, that's for sure.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Well, that's one difference. Also the defense played possibly their best game of the season. Jeremiah George looked like the all-conference player he is, Jevohn Miller looked better than against UNI, the defensive line was better as a whole, and the corners were frankly much better and more consistent.

And the o-line looked way better against UNI.

 

[Die4Cy]

What we have found over the years is that the main way defenses have responded to the zone read is to make opposing QBs pay a high physical price for attempting to make plays with their feet.

I have no problem with innovating on offense, but defenses adjust. And if their main response to what you are doing is to kill your QB, you need to reassess the value of those plays in your play book.

 

[cyclonepower]

UNI wanted to win, it didn't even look like KU was trying...

 

[clonedude]

Well, that's one difference. Also the defense played possibly their best game of the season. Jeremiah George looked like the all-conference player he is, Jevohn Miller looked better than against UNI, the defensive line was better as a whole, and the corners were frankly much better and more consistent.

That's all true, I guess I was looking mostly at the offensive side of the ball.

If we're going to run it, run it with the good stable of RB's that we do have instead of our QB. Get the ball into the hands of the guys that are supposed to run the football and let them do their thing. Don't have your QB run it 21 times.

I was glad to see us take a few more shots down the field last night. Still not even close to enough, but it was a little better. Even the INT on the deep throw to Bundrage was no big deal. It was 3rd down, so it was just as good as a punt anyway. No harm really. Keep taking the shots. It loosens up the defense.

 

[CYme]

Paraphrasing what Blum said last night, "Charlie Weis can coach at KU as long as he wants"

 

[BigCojones]

Colin Klien and RG3 say the read option works just fine in he Big 12.

 

[clonedude]

What we have found over the years is that the main way defenses have responded to the zone read is to make opposing QBs pay a high physical price for attempting to make plays with their feet.

I have no problem with innovating on offense, but defenses adjust. And if their main response to what you are doing is to kill your QB, you need to reassess the value of those plays in your play book.

Yes. All year long, teams have always crashed in on the RB on the read option and forced our QB to take it. That's smart. You basically tell ISU, if you're going to run that crap, we're going to force your QB to run it every time and we're going to punish him severely for it. And that's exactly what happened. That's why Sam played injured all year and was never truly himself. It's just beyond stupid IMO.

 

[clonedude]

Colin Klien and RG3 say the read option works just fine in he Big 12.

They were fortunate they didn't get killed. It hasn't worked out so well for RG3 in the NFL, has it? He's been nothing but injured.

And Baylor's Petty is taking a beating this year too. He's a huge QB though, so he's been able to do it ok, but it's taking it's toll on him too. Oregon's Mariota is taking a beating too.

I just like our results much better when we don't run our QB (last night) versus when we do (UNI and most other games this year). Let the QB throw, and the RB's run.

 

[Wesley]

UNI wanted to win, it didn't even look like KU was trying...

Ice is nice.

 

[CycloneYoda]

Roughly 84 degrees was the difference.

 

[ISC]

Colin Klien and RG3 say the read option works just fine in he Big 12.

They got lucky and played the two or three years it was still the "new thing". I think we can now say that most defenses have figured out how to stop it now. That's why, as a niners fan, i was worried going into this season with kap at QB... those DCs are smart... it may take them a season or two, but they will usually find a way to stop any "gimmiky" offensive scheme. That's why the "pro-style" game is still played in about 90% of the NFL (and the eagles are not exactly convincing anyone they should change)

 

[clonedude]

Roughly 84 degrees was the difference.

I don't agree at all. The temp was the reason why we didn't run our QB 21 times? Not.

Rohach isn't the runner that Sam is. That's why we bring Sam in to run the read option. But just because Sam can run better than Rohach doesn't mean we should run him IMO. I think Sam can be a pretty darn good QB too if he only runs a couple times a game versus 21 times.

 

[Luth4Cy]

It's clear the zone read works to some extent. A lot of it is just running it with the right guys. Rohach isn't a great runner at this level, and therefore shouldn't be running more than a few zone reads a game. Richardson is a good runner, but he's injury prone in the running game and therefore also shouldn't be running it a lot. With a guy like Barnett where running was his thing, it would have been dumb to not run a lot of zone reads with him. Same will be true if Lanning is ever QB, running is his strength and that's what he needs to be doing as a QB.

 

[Stormin]

Big difference is that Kansas totally sucked. They covered no one as guys were wide open. ISU seemed to have better footing on that icy field. Really bad Kansas team made us look better. Hopefully Rhoads won't think that our offensive problems are solved. Rohach looked much better last night. The poor opponent and icy field worked to our advantage last night. We will take the win. See what happens at WVU.

 

[clonedude]

It's clear the zone read works to some extent. A lot of it is just running it with the right guys. Rohach isn't a great runner at this level, and therefore shouldn't be running more than a few zone reads a game. Richardson is a good runner, but he's injury prone in the running game and therefore also shouldn't be running it a lot. With a guy like Barnett where running was his thing, it would have been dumb to not run a lot of zone reads with him. Same will be true if Lanning is ever QB, running is his strength and that's what he needs to be doing as a QB.

Next year I think we should go with either Sam or Grant as QB, and then bring in Lanning as our Belldozer type guy if needed? Although, I'm still not really sold on that strategy either. When you change QB's, it's kind of obvious what you're doing. Kind of like bringing in Sam last night on the 2 yd line and he takes it himself and loses 3 yds. KU knew he was brought in the game to run it. We've been doing it for weeks.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Next year I think we should go with either Sam or Grant as QB, and then bring in Lanning as our Belldozer type guy if needed? Although, I'm still not really sold on that strategy either. When you change QB's, it's kind of obvious what you're doing. Kind of like bringing in Sam last night on the 2 yd line and he takes it himself and loses 3 yds. KU knew he was brought in the game to run it. We've been doing it for weeks.

With a competent OC changing QB's isn't as big of a deal. Northwestern has done it very effectively in the past. Obviously it worked well with Leaf/Tebow at Florida and Jones/Bell at Oklahoma. Even Purple Kansas has been doing it effective this year. It just has to be clear the run first guy is a situational QB, IMO.

 

[flynnhicks03]

They got lucky and played the two or three years it was still the "new thing". I think we can now say that most defenses have figured out how to stop it now. That's why, as a niners fan, i was worried going into this season with kap at QB... those DCs are smart... it may take them a season or two, but they will usually find a way to stop any "gimmiky" offensive scheme. That's why the "pro-style" game is still played in about 90% of the NFL (and the eagles are not exactly convincing anyone they should change)

So much wrong in this post. Vince Young was running the read option at Texas long before Klein and RG3 came along. It's nothing new to the college game. Snyder's been running "gimmicky" offenses for years at K-State, and it's worked pretty damn well. Most college defenses don't have the cover men necessary to stop a good spread/run-option team. Most NFL teams do, but there are more NFL teams moving to the read-option/spread than there are college teams moving to pro-style.

 

[dirtyninety]

Some of you get it.....the icy field in effect simulated and enhanced what is normally a talent difference--a significant one--for those teams who successfully run the type offense that Mess hopes to in his XBOX360 world. Those bubble screens worked because the icy field made our guys who knew where they were running look like Baylor or Ohio State and the KU defense that could not react on the ice and basically had quit at halftime look like...well....Iowa State defense normally. Sorry. This game was an anomaly. A happy and welcome one! Agree with the OP though.....it has been apparent since the Austin Arnaud days that this offense will not work at this school yet the insanity continues.......the staff should have been cleaned out after the Liberty Bowl.
Congratulations to the fans and players for last night.

 

[clonedude]

Some of you get it.....the icy field in effect simulated and enhanced what is normally a talent difference--a significant one--for those teams who successfully run the type offense that Mess hopes to in his XBOX360 world. Those bubble screens worked because the icy field made our guys who knew where they were running look like Baylor or Ohio State and the KU defense that could not react on the ice and basically had quit at halftime look like...well....Iowa State defense normally. Sorry. This game was an anomaly. A happy and welcome one! Agree with the OP though.....it has been apparent since the Austin Arnaud days that this offense will not work at this school yet the insanity continues.......the staff should have been cleaned out after the Liberty Bowl.
Congratulations to the fans and players for last night.

Agree mostly with this.

But Sam Richarson is no Vince Young or RG3. He should NOT be running more than a few times a game, mostly on passing plays where he's forced to run because of pressure, not on read option plays. He's not Tommie Frazier.

We can't afford him getting killed. Some guys have shown to not get hurt, but Sam is not one of those kinds of guys. He is injury prone. So just let him throw it. And let him throw deep more often too. It drives me nuts to watch Iowa yesterday, and they actually take more shots down the field than we do, and most would consider them a very vanilla run oriented team.